General Chat

i can remember years ago a big thing being made of it.it could have been around the time of the bombings in london where they targeted a hotel mps were staying in.theres comments about france and australia talking about banning it.ive not got the time to look yet.im busy will look later

France is apparantly considering a ban on the Burqua and the Niqab in any state property or transport system, they decided that a total ban will not be considered at the moment. Is this a sensible idea or will it lead to extremism on both sides. More importantly does it contravene the ECHR ?

Barcelona has become the first large Spanish city to announce a ban on the wearing of full Islamic face-veils in some public spaces.

The ban was designed to include any head-wear that hindered identification, officials said.

At least two towns in Catalonia, the region that includes Barcelona, have already announced bans.

Belgium and France have both recently taken steps towards restricting the use of full veils in public.

right im off .will look more later

I dunno, Jupiter Joy, do you think maybe you can answer your own question? -- "why a rule for one and a rule for the other"

I think you probably can. Maybe because the two things are not remotely similar?

"why is it offensive to suggest that anyone could wear a burka[which is true]thats not being offensive thats called common sense ,mores to the point some have .??"

Maybe you know what that means, but I sure don't.

From what I can tell, you are prentending that I said it is offensive "to suggest that anyone could wear a burka". Which, as I said, makes no sense.

Try reading what I said.

I said it is offensive to compare
- a burqa worn by a woman who is neither a criminal nor a terrorist
to
- headgear worn by a criminal terrorist.


Fairy, there actually are women in the world who do not measure their value by the size of their breasts, and who have no desire to wear string bikinis anywhere ever, no matter what kind of body they have. Hard to believe for some, maybe, but true.

But never mind the string bikinis. What I asked about was going topless, and specifically about being forced to do so. Good thing for you to be forced to do? Surely other people are *entitled* to see your breasts if you want to go out in public ...

I must be honest, the whole outfit frightens me maybe because I'm not used to seeing women in these outfits. I respect other religions etc but this kind of dress wear isn't part of our "natural" culture as such. If I talk with someone face to face, then that's what I expect to see, their face!

Barcelona, France, Belgium ...


Funny how most of the time we just hates those Europeans and we don't wanna do anything they do. But when it comes to scapegoating them Muslims, it's follow the leader time!

"If I talk with someone face to face, then that's what I expect to see, their face!"

Your choice, Whirley. If a woman wears a burqa, you don't have to talk to her.

If there's some legitimate reason for restricting her freedom to choose what to wear in public, do offer it (and respond to counter-arguments already offered, of course).

"this kind of dress wear isn't part of our 'natural' culture as such"

I guess Australia needs to ban the wearing of kilts by men in public ... not part of the "natural" culture, it ain't.

Perhaps you meant "national". Same answer.


I understand if you're just raising these as discussion points, and not offering them as grounds for a ban. Since they aren't. ;)

I do think Australia should ban the wearing of kilts - all those hairy legs and knobbly knees. Ugh!!

Sue xx

[and it dunnit twice ...]

It's unnatural!

*shudder*



Whaddaya mean, you stupid mismanaged website, "service unavailable"? ....

......all those hairy legs and knobbly knees??



They'll be banning shorts next!! ;O))

just going through the list...

janey .i dont dislike france/belgium or spain in fact im going to spain in a month .
also as this thread seems to go off track ,my point was simply everyone should be treated the same .
with regards to terrorism its there it happens .weather a handfull have been blown up or a whole nation it makes no odds to me .we need to think of the risks .im sure if a family member was caught up in a terrorist attack the rules would change.as for sots and kilts ...maybe i have a fetish for men in skirts ...there cute really
i think its right that helmuts should be removed ,or anything that covers the face in a bank or shop etc etc.that includes a burka.treat everyone the same thats easy enough.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/02/taliban-buying-children-to-serve-as-suicide-bomber/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1446003.stm

so you see things do happen like this.

im not saying they will but they could

Ban wedding dresses.

i agree blinkin things just clutter up the place.

Jupiter Joy -- "everyone should be treated the same"

Let us then refuse to allow women leave from their jobs to give birth.

Men do not get leave from their jobs to give birth. And everyone must be treated the same.

Do you see the point? It is not always "fair" or "equal" to *treat everyone the same*.

Let me reiterate the point I made before, however.

Wearing a balaclava for any reason ***is not the same*** as wearing a woman burqa for her own religious or cultural reasons, no matter how often you or anyone says it is.

"we need to think of the risks"

WHAT risks?

People have been blown up in the UK by men carrying backpacks.

Why are you not calling for a ban on men carrying backpacks?????????

If it were biologically possible for men to give birth they would want more than the statutory time away from work that's for sure.

I guess I don't feel comfortable around strange (to me) clothing because I don't really like change! That and the association with the fanatical element within the Muslim faith definitely unsettles me.

Sue (the grumpy one)

x

Ooh that's a harsh comment Janey. I think a lot of us quite like those Europeans but it doesn't mean we like abiding by their rules which we do whether we like it or not.

On another note, I know a colleague who is a devout Muslim but I would not call him fanatical even though he dresses in a traditional Muslim way. Please forgive my ignorance or rather my memory as I cannot recall the proper name. I would not call him fanatical as I would be insulting him. I think he is one of the most kindest, calmest, gentlest people I have ever worked with and I have never heard him complain about anything even though he has been through so much.

If we ride on a motorbike without a crash helmet we are prosecuted, but Sikhs do not have to wear one - surely from a safey point they would want to wear one
Liz

"I think a lot of us quite like those Europeans but it doesn't mean we like abiding by their rules which we do whether we like it or not."

Yes, well, SRS, that's what I had in mind.

Their rules are to be rejected a good bit of the time, but when it comes to the wearing of burqas, suddenly they're the role models to be followed.

When in London, do as the Parisians do.



This may amuse:

http://boingboing.net/2010/03/31/bikini-protest-of-fr.html

(I tend to find the bemusing amusing, so I'll smile.)


I find this amusing too, of course:

http://www.canada.com/life/Europeans+opposed+Islamic+veil+schools+Study/2960868/story.html

(I believe "the use of crucifixes in classrooms" must be read to mean "the wearing of crucifixes in classrooms.)

I was about to ask here how many would favour banning the wearing of crucifixes.

----------------------------------------------

MADRID - Just over half of Europeans surveyed opposed allowing Islamic headscarves in schools but backed the presence of crucifixes in classrooms, according to a Spanish study obtained by AFP Wednesday.

A total 52.6 per cent of those polled in 12 European Union member states along were "opposed" or "totally opposed" to the use of the garment in schools, according to the study carried out by the research department of BBVA, Spain's second-largest bank.

Opposition to the veil was highest in Bulgaria with 84.3 per cent against and France with 68.7 per cent opposed and it was lowest in Poland with only 25.6 per cent against followed by Denmark with 28.1 per cent opposed.

By contrast 54.4 per cent of those polled were in favour of classrooms displaying crucifixes.

In Spain and Italy, two nations with a strong Roman Catholic tradition, support for the use of crucifixes in classrooms stood at 69.9 per cent and 49.3 per cent respectively.

Support for the use of crucifixes in classrooms shot up to 77 per cent in Britain and 78.8 per cent in Denmark.

The issue of the use of Islamic headscarves has been thrust into the spotlight once again in Europe due to controversial moves by France and Belgium to ban Muslim full face veils.

Last week France announced it would seek a law to ban Muslim residents and visitors from wearing a burqa or a niqab in public, while Belgium was poised to pass a similar ban until its ruling coalition collapsed on Thursday.

The BBVA study polled 1,500 people in 12 EU member states — Belgium, Britain, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Poland, Portugal, Spain and Sweden — as well as in Switzerland and Turkey on a variety of issues.

The question on the use of the veil and crucifixes in classrooms was posed only to participants in the study in the EU member states.

-----------------------------------------

Tolerant bunch, Europeans. Ban *headscarves* in the clssroom, but allow crucifixes dangling around necks.