General Chat

rose ........lolol........identity parade .pmsl

Difficult one, this

My first reaction is to say that banning anything isn't what this country's about

On the other hand, neither is forcing anyone to do anything against their will. Enforced marriages spring to mind.

If women wear the burqa of their own free will, then that's find with me. But if they're forced to do so, then that's altogether wrong,

As you can see, I'm not sure of the answer to any of this

Sue x

I think a lot of people might like to read the article other-Joy suggested:

http://www.q-news.com/media-DailyMail-Burka.htm

Also, just as a matter of plain fact, NOT all women wear the burqa because they are directly compelled to.

All of us do a lot of things because we are *indirectly* compelled to by tradition or social pressure. If we were not subject to pressure from society or family, why would any of us wear tops at the beach?

And if we do wear tops at the beach -- or if we wear makeup or high heels, or our grandmothers didn't wear trousers -- it isn't because our male family members are going to stone us to death if we do or don't do any of those things.

No one should assume that to be the reason why any particular individual woman wears a burqa.

*I* don't think there are any good reasons for wearing it. But then I don't think there are any good reasons for wearing high heels, either.

i,d look better in heels than a burka

Jupiter Joy, sorry, this is just weird:

"but when our countrys at risk at the moment safety does come first .in saying that just because 2 guys go around shooting folks does,nt mean to say guns should be banned"

People with guns DO kill and HAVE killed many people (and robbed others, and injured others).

When you compare people with guns to people wearing burqas, people with guns are clearly the much greater threat, statistically.

And yet it's the burqas you want to ban ...


Oh, and -- many of us would look better in a burqa than in heels. ;) Depending on what standard one is applying, of course!

As a child, when I regularly attended Mass, I remember ALL the ladies wore a head covering to church – be it a scarf, veil or hat. Now, was that because the Bible said we must do that? Did all the husbands FORCE their wives to cover their heads? Or was it out of respect and tradition I wonder? A belief that a good and respectful thing was being done.

And going to church in my ‘Sunday Best’, was that because the Bible said I must do that? I rather think it was because I had been taught that a certain respect and custom was to be shown. For sure I would not have gone there in my shorts and a revealing top, bearing midriff and cleavage. Nuns cover their hair and body with long loose fitting clothing, and we wouldn’t dream of asking them to bare their heads.

So isn’t the wearing of a burqa for much the same reason - respect, decorum, custom, tradition? The custom is that no male outside the immediate family must see the female form or face, so they cover when out in public – for those of you who don’t know, it is taken off inside the home.

I have been to all female parties/dinners/gatherings in Saudi (yes, they’re quite common) where burqas, abbayas and veils have been discarded completely, but as soon as it is signaled that a man might be entering the room (and it must be signalled) , the garments are swiftly thrown over to cover all. I can also tell you that what many Muslim women wear underneath those burqas when attending such social functions is often of the most provocative nature. But that’s a whole other story!

Uzzi, you are just being offensive.

"They are now in country of choice ......and please don't give me the crap some where born here..... it is still the country of choice and that country isn't Islamic ..If they wanted to be Islamic why not stay where they are? ....Don't ask another country and faith to give you shelter and then expect them to change their laws to suit you."

Are you a permanent resident / citizen of the country where you now live? Could you just up and move somewhere and live there permanently because you felt like it? That's not generally how immigration works. People born in the UK very likely cannot just up and "choose" another country.

In that respect, you're just not making any sense. A country of birth isn't a country of choice unless there is another choice available.

Who is asking "another faith" to give anyone shelter? Who is asking that anyone change any laws to suit anyone? Again, you aren't making sense.

People born in a country and people who have lawfully immigrated to a country have rights in that country. They're not asking "another faith" to do anything. They are citizens with rights. You really, really, really need to remember that there have been non-Anglicans in England for a very very long time. You are teetering on the edge of bigotry, if not falling over it, plain and simple.

lol like any woman wants to have to wear a set of clothes followed by a full burka dress and mask in 31 degrees ... we wanst born with clothes so why should we wear them lol we should all get naked pmsl

Fairy -
Of course clothes are worn underneath the burqa, as the burqa is worn only when in public. I suppose it's a bit like us putting a coat on. When at home, it is removed. Or, if in the company of females only, ie visiting a friend at her house, then it can be removed.

K

well janey you can wear the burka ,and i,ll stick to what i believe in.
on the link you sent .the woman in question hated the burka .she could,nt see properly.[driving a car comes to mind]it was also suggested that the men in the family prefer this or at least some do.
they put up with rude comments from other people,so in all i dont think its a good thing at all.
kind of a man thing really.or a religion thing.

thats what i meen Karen why would anyone want to wear 1 set of clothing then the burka when its 31 degrees ? when its 31 digrees here i wear light clothing and never a coat lol x

Fairy,

They dress like that out of modesty and respect for themselves, tradition and custom. The custom is that no male outside the immediate family must see the female form or face, so they cover when out in public . They just don't show a lot of bare flesh, that's their way, they are FAR more modest than we are. Not even the men go around in shorts.

OK when it's boiling hot at 31c you wear as little as possible. But do you go to the office in a bikini? Why? Perhaps you'd feel you'd gone a bit too far with flashing the flesh? You might feel uncomfortable that you were attracting stares and unwanted attention. Well, that's how one of those women who wears a burqa would feel if she went out without it.

There are tribes in Africa where women wear nothing but a grass skirt. But if I went there I don't think I'd feel comfortable dressing the same way.

It's what our traditions and customs dictate isn't it?

K x :-)

Jupiter Joy, it just doesn't matter a crumb what anybody's reason for wearing or not wearing anything is. Yours, mine, hers, theirs.

The question is whether there is a legitimate reason to make a rule requiring someone to wear something, or prohibiting someone from wearing something.

What you or I or the woman in the moon think about wearing or not wearing anything just matters not.

I suspect you actually like it that way. Because I suspect you do not want someone, anyone, telling you what you may and may not wear. No matter what very good reason they have for it.

(I think I have very good reason for telling women not to walk around in public with large portions of their breasts exposed, for instance. They invite degrading comments and actions from men, and they contribute to the degradation of women, just as much as any burqa-wearing woman does. But *I am not* proposing to prohibit women from doing that.)

You just don't think that other people deserve the same consideration.

Karen in their own country thats Kool no problem , but here Muslim men do wear shorts.. and on a whole the woman just dont look happy , i bet they wish they could wear a thong bikini and strut their stuff lol i just dont think its right in this country but hey ho who am i ? my dad fort
the war lost an arm for this to be a free country , so what will be will be xxxx
rosex

Sorry Janey , but i think if woman had huge bust they should show em off , ;o)
( not completely lol ) but if u got it flaunt it x

janey with all respect....my main idea for adding this was for others to give there views.which is cool.
but you suspect an awfull lot concidering we have,nt met.as for the main conversation .....i feel they should be banned or allow everyone the same right.that includes motorcycle helmuts hoodies .or a bag over the head if prefered.
it should cut both ways.
as for women being degrading if they flop um about ...each to there own.like stinky said .if ya got it flaunt it.
but as for suspecting i am this and that ..you got it wrong.

Let's get the view of a Moslem woman:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1195052/Why-I-British-Muslim-woman-want-burkha-banned-streets.html

The total covering of a moslem woman is not a religious concept - the Qu'ran only states (as does the Bible) that women AND men must dress modestly - and the views of modesty have changed an awful lot over the past 2000 years (the Bible) or 1400 years (Islam)

As for taking the burqa off when they get home, there's a moslem comedienne who ONLY wears the burqa when she visits her parents - it's all a matter of choice - unless you live in a fundamentalist country.

Does anyone remember when the balaclava (mainly worn by men) was banned?
That was because of Irish Terrorists.
I don't remember hearing much fuss then, and, to be honest, Irish terrorists were in the minority!!!

It's been legal for women in Canada to go topless in public -- anywhere in public -- for, oh, 10 years now.

The only ones who ever have, other than the few equality activists who started it and took the matter to court, are a few street hookers. And a few beach volleyball tournament players. That tired soon, in both cases.

A lot of us wanted the ban on women going topless in public -- i.e. the law that made it possible to punish women for doing that -- struck down.

You'd think that since the law was discriminatory, and we wanted it struck down because of that, we'd have rushed to run around town with nothing on top. Particularly in the weather we're having.

I'm pretty sure if someone tried to ban us from wearing tops in public, we'd be taking *them* to court.

But hey, that's US, and we're the only ones who count.


The theological arguments among Muslims as to what constraints their religion places on what people wear are none of anyone else's business. Just as whatever argument may have gone on in the RC church as to what nuns should wear was none of anyone else's business.

So frankly, I don't care what some Muslim woman the Daily Mail dredges up has to say.

I do not feel entitled, or compelled, to tell anyone else what their religion requires or does not require. Not my business.

But to compare an item of clothing that someone does associate with their religion, as they interpret it and are free to interpret it, or even associates with their cultural tradition, to the headgear worn by someone else for criminal purposes ... wow, that's just offensive.

well i think maggies hit the nail on the head there .the balaclava being banned..........which in a way makes sense .so my point is why a rule for one and a rule for the other.
why is it offensive to suggest that anyone could wear a burka[which is true]thats not being offensive thats called common sense ,mores to the point some have .??

Being an efficient terrorist in terms of planting bombs requires that you are 'invisible', that you blend in with the look of the people around you, not that you stand out because you are covered head to toe in black cloth.

IRA bombers didn't wear balaclavas while planting bombs in broad daylight did they ... they just looked 'like everyone else'. I don't actually remember balaclavas being banned? I can find no reference to that...other than that they were not to be worn at Republican funerals obviously..because that was a 'political statement' .

It's when 'they' (terrorists) look just like 'us'...that one has to worry. The nutter who you don't notice, far more dangerous! ( yes there is a sliver of irony in that sentence...just incase someone doesn't recognise it!)