General Chat

I think William's point is that the poor should have the same opportunities as the rich do, including access to higher education.

i think everybody should be given the same opportunitys
rich poor black white and those wearing red jumpers ect

That's never going to happen. It will always be easier for a lawyer's child to become a lawyer and a doctor's child to become a doctor but I do agree that the opportunities should be there for those who have the drive to succeed - and I don't think that the increase in fees will change that.

Rita,what a frightening time you had as a child! it was just a bit before me, only a bit!!! and how I admire you for creating your own opportunties in a very difficult era, no government help there!!!! as you say keeping on about the advantages some children have over others is just plain boring! William,why do you only talk about Messrs Cameron,Osbourne and Clegg for their disproportionet advantages? when a good number of Labour MP's went to Private Schools, and came from 'affluent ' homes, even sending their children to these same Schools, Harriet Harmen to name but one. How hypocritical is that!!! As for Lenin and Marx?, theory was a wonderful thing, reality turned out to be' Oh so different!!' leading to that monster Stalin!! where elitism was alive and well!! freedom of speech, where was that?!!! we are where we are and I do believe that our politicians of all complections are serious about Education from the earliest age, which is certainly an enormous improvement from when I was a child, when less able children were written off at an early age! As you say Chris, there will always be have and have nots, Rags to Riches, Riches to Rags, it was ever thus, and yes, I would HATE to be the Queen, I think like you that she does a brilliant job, certainly better than some Grey faced President, shooting by in an Armour plated Car with hardly a glance at the population!

I disagree Uggers. I know that I considered approx £10,000 of debt manageable when I decided to do a degree. However, if I was looking at approx £27,000 I'd definitely be having second, possibly third, thoughts. It's all very well people saying well you only have to start paying it back once you earn £21,000 p.a. but it's still a debt hanging over you, not to mention the interest it's incurring.

Joy totally agree with you about the red jumpers ;-) *she says looking down at the red jumper she's wearing.

Of course the ones I mentioned are not the only ones and I'm not seeking to make narrow political points.

It appears people are just to accept their lot then and don't even think of trying to get equality of opportunity for all.

Don't worry some of us will not go quietly into the niight,thank you very much.Any mention of Marx and Lenin just won't wash I'm afraid,you can call me an extremist all you like,It won't stop me fighting for a better life for all.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

We're all different, Chaotic - if someone offered me that amount of money to go back to university and study, which I loved with a passion, and to pay it back on those terms I would snatch their hand off:)

We're probably going round in circles now but as far as I understand, there is going to be an increase in scholarship funding and penalties for universities charging over £6000 and not taking students from worse off backgrounds. Plus, if you never earn over 21 grand (oh to reach the giddy heights of that income), the debt is written off after 30 years I think. I personally wouldn't worry a toss about a debt that I didn't have to pay off at more than about 30 quid a month.

Uggers in 30 years I'm going to be 69 lol

What I really want to know is where is the government going to find the money for these tuition fees from?

Chaotic, I'll be about 50 by then ;) Maybe they'll borrow it back from Ireland?

Liar lol

These are the things that bother me ..
1 if our children go to uni and end up with a £27,000 debt ...and have to earn £20,000 before paying back how will my son do it coz he wants to be a paramedic and knows they dont get paid that amount?

2 If he never earns that amount WHEN will the goverment get OUR money back to pass onto the next lot of students to go to uni?

3. If a child is boarder line at school and knows it .....they may decide not to work harder to get themselves into £27,000 debt .....surely this will result in less passes at school poorer school league tables and more problems in classes . Who will suffer then??

Odd thorts I know but .......what the h*ll is going on in the country??

and they want to stop the silly degrees
whos gonna get a top job with a degree in beckham studies

where has common sense gone

Depends what you consider to be a silly degree Joy.

I, along with some others, met with Shaun Woodward on Friday. Three of the others are doing a BA(hons) degree in Game Art which when they graduate will enable them to get jobs developing computer games. Some would say this is a 'silly degree' but computer games is one of our biggest industries at the moment. These three will be able to get well paid jobs and eventually be able to earn well in excess of the £21,000 required to pay back their loans.

Ah but you have to remember it isn't 'what' the degree is in that really counts, ( unless it is specific like law or medicine etc) it is the fact that you can study at the level required, do your research, put it on paper in a coherent and cohesive manner ( something I'm not managing at all well tonight lol) .

I looked at a job the other day...in research, something we on here all know how to do...but the employer needed 'proof' of that...ie a degree, and they would only consider applications from graduates.

well i also think the
science of harry potters also a useless degree
star trek and golf management to
and surfing studies may go down a bomb in Australia
but here its a no no

lets get real

It's not a degree,its a module in a BA degree in Education Studies ( I was intrigued as I love Harry Potter lol)

"Students are being given the chance to sign up to what is thought to be the UK's first course focusing on the world of Harry Potter.

The Durham University module uses the works of JK Rowling to examine prejudice, citizenship and bullying in modern society.

So far about 80 undergraduates have signed up for the optional module, part of a BA degree in Education Studies.

Harry Potter and the Age of Illusion will open to students later this year.

A university spokesman said: "This module places the Harry Potter novels in their wider social and cultural context.

"A number of themes will be explored, including the world of rituals, prejudice and intolerance in the classroom, bullying, friendship and solidarity and the ideals of and good citizenship."

The module was created by Dr Martin Richardson, head of the Department of Education at Durham University.

He said the idea for the new module had been conceived in response to growing demand from the student body.

He said: "It seeks to place the series in its wider social and cultural context and will explore some fundamental issues such as the moral universe of the school.

"You just need to read the academic writing which started to emerge four or five years ago to see that Harry Potter is worthy of serious study."

As such, exploring the themes contained within the book it is no less valid than exploring those same things in a "serious" work?

Whilst I DON'T agree with the increase in the tuition fees,and really feel for those who are now caught up in this crazy situation.

As parents we saved in advance and invested for our children's future, education and weddings.

We both worked full time for a modest wage and are by no means 'rolling in money'.

I think more parents should look ahead and do or have done that if you care for them and ensure they to run into as least debt as possible .

We paid for both our children's tuition fees at Uni upfront by DD monthly, they now have no debt on that score.

Yes.. they both had Student loans, a debt which they have to repay, as I don't believe in giving them everything on a plate.
Dau is repaying her loan now, the figure of her earnings she had to achieve to start repayments when she took out her loan was a lot lower than £21K per annum .

My sister and I went to Uni when there were grants available, but means tested , but cos my dad who also saved for our education, had to pay more than half of the fees.
My BIL fortunately (or unfortunately whichever way you look at it ) had a full grant,cos his mum was on a very low wage, but was supplemented weekly by my hubby (17 and in his first job ) and his mum on fooding costs.

I think too that the lecturers salary is over the top, one of the reasons for the rise in the fees imo

Down off my shouting stool....Hindsight is a wonderful thing.!!

Rose is right - the whole idea of further education is to enable you to " study at the level required, do your research, put it on paper in a coherent and cohesive manner" - in other words, to think intelligently.

Whether you use the tools of the history of the British Middle Ages, life in Elizabethan England, the collected works of Dr Samuel Johnson, the atrocities of the first world war, or - indeed - the collected works of Blackadder, the point is still the same ....

Tuition charges are, in my opinion, missing the point. I'd much rather education was free at the point of delivery, but having to pay back fees when you earn enough to do so - although an administrative cost to achieve the same result, other than prolonging the evil day for the Treasury - doesn't strike as so very terrible.

What is much more serious is that the cuts in University funding will mean that they are able to give much less resource to actual teaching, and more resource to attracting foreign students to balance their books.

Much better, in my view, to just increase taxes, and keep public services at a sensible level.

And, just to be clear, I'm a tax payer, and I'd personally have no problem at all with a significant rise in the basic rate.

Sue x

I'll have to read the responses now, but honest to @#$% this is such nonsense ...

madamecholet: "behaviour such as we have witnessed on Thursday would have meant you would have disappeared for years, maybe ever"

And is that not the entire bleeding POINT????

This is NOT what happens in our societies.

People HAVE THE RIGHT to voice their opinions in public.

People EVERYWHERE have that right, because it is a fundamental human right, but in some places it is violated.

It is a violation of a person's FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHTS to hit them over the head when they are NOT DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL (and even if they are, for cripes' sake).

So what is disgraceful is when protestors IN A LIBERAL DEMOCRACY are assaulted by police when they are exercising a fundamental human right and doing nothing illegal.

It is just as disgraceful in England or Canada as it is in Tibet or Burma or anywhere else.


"presumably no-one cares a fig in our over protected over indulged young people for any of these issues?!"

Presumably you're totally ignorant of the world around you.

Students have historically been the segment of our societies that DOES voice opinions in public about such things. I know I did, when I was a student. Remember Vietnam at all? Noticed Iraq lately?

Not everyone shares your pet projects in this regard, of course. You get out there on the streets and protest about what you care about, and everybody else will do the same.

chrisofwessex: "This is our country , we live here, pay taxes and have the right to express our thoughts and feelings about our own country. It is not for others who do not live here to lay down the law and tell us all how wrong we are."

Oh, take your tired xenophobia and bigotry somewhere else. Or just your hatred of me, which you bizarrely choose to express in a form that makes you look like a xenophobe and bigot.

You will note that in this thread I have, more than once, denounced the actions of the Canadian authorities in similar situations. You feel free to do the same, now.

And do tell madamecholet how wrong she is to be criticizing other people's countries, while you're at it ... and be sure to write letters to the editors of all your local papers whenever they criticize someone else's country in their editorials.

Noticed at all that this is the WORLDWIDE web we're on?

And that we are all members of the HUMAN species, and residents of planet earth?