General Chat

the students should be ashamed of them selves

Apparently the Students? on the roof came from Cambridge University,Others came down from Scotland ( Don,t think they pay any fees) the pictures show windows being smashed etc,and the Fire Extiguisher was thrown down ( not dropped ) those whose pictures show them comitting vandalism should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.and the Organisers of the Demo.should be made to pay the cost of repairs,( Students union ) I know they are having problems with costs, However If Brown/Blair and co. had,nt spent all OUR money and put the Country into Hock for years to come,this may not have happened.But like all Polititians,Nothing is like what they say in their Election Manifestoes.But if that lot are the future,God help us.**M**.

I suppose if you repeat a lie often enough it gets to be believed.As I've stated previously the vast amount that was spent by the last government was in addressing the failures of the Banks.If any bank had been allowed to go under you would have seen far worse scenes than yesterday at every branch of those that remained as people scrambled to withdraw their money.

The present economic crisis was caused by Osborne's friends the spivs and specuulators.

As for any political crisis it is caused by what I call Focus Groupism.There should be a return to mass participation by ordinary folk in Political Parties.There should also be a return to ideas and policies coming from the grassroots of these parties.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

Regardless of what the protest was about, these students should not be resorting to anarchy and vandalism in the name of their cause. I know it is said that far left groups were mainly responsible for the vandalism but a 23 year old female student from cambridge admitted that some of the students from her Cambridge college were on the roof. She also said that she accepted vandalism against property and buildings as not being a problem and wholly acceptable. I think if these vandals are identified (somebody could have been killed by that extinguisher) they should be 'sent down' from college. There are many would be students who are unable to get a place at Cambridge.

I can't understand why the police didn't bring out the WATER CANNONS with the weather like it was, I bet they would have soon run away, like cowards always do. !!

Re water cannons, I i,magine it would have been impossible to use them effectively in the relatively small area of the trouble, a water cannon would have hindered the police as much as the students.

I like the way David Cameron is going to have an enquiry into how the Police handled the riot,I feel the Police cant do anything right they are either too heavy handed or there is not enough of them.
And he's going to cut them back even further.

I think I read that the Chief of the Met police himself said he was embarrassed at how they failed.

I see quite a number of people referring to the "students" engaging in the property damage.

Does anyone actually have evidence that the people in question were students?

There are in fact contingents of people who prey on demonstrations like this specifically to cause property damage and nothing else. They call themselves anarchists; the Black Bloc is a more or less generic title for them. They descend from hundreds of miles away every time they see an opportunity to hijack a genuine event.

At the G20 summit in Toronto this year, they destroyed blocks of storefronts along the main shopping street. NO ONE who was involved in organizing the genuine protests and demonstrations had anyting to do with those people -- and those people had NOTHING to do with organizing the genuine protests and demonstrations.

They are not involved in the issues the demonstrations are about, or any other kind of public participation in public issues. Their sole activity is this: causing as much damage as possible whenever other groups are demonstrating their genuine beliefs about public policies.

If there's any evidence that this was NOT who the people were who were causing all the damage this time out, I'd like to see it.

These people are professional disruptors. Whatever they claim their beliefs are or their purpose is, they are not ever actually associated with the groups whose activities they disrupt.


http://www.politics.co.uk/comment/education/comment-on-the-front-line-with-student-protestors-$21385525.htm

"The most active participants were, as ever, the black bloc, that militant tribe of anarchists whose faces are covered in black scarves. You can tell it's them by the determined walk and the confidence as well as the get-up. They pull everyone back before smashing windows. Whatever you think, they're actually relatively careful with the people around them. But yep, they smash stuff. That's what they do."


And how do the real protestors react? --

"Soon enough the first protestors emerged on the roof. They unfolded a banner and waved and set off fire extinguishers. Someone threw one down, narrowly missing the police on the ground. The crowd on the ground started booing and chanting: 'Stop throwing s**t'. "


But that's it. There's no more talk about the issues a demonstration was actually about; the news is all about the professional yobs. Very effective.

And yes, the police are left in a no-win situation by these activities. More success for the yobs.

http://www.thewolf.co.uk/news?xid=15800468

Web Call For Violence Ahead Of Student Demo
Sky News has found evidence of internet discussions about potential violence at the student protests at least a week before Wednesday's riot in London.

Student anarchist groups had been using known protester forums and Facebook to call for "direct action", "civil disobedience" and "occupations" since at least October 26.

Two Facebook groups with a combined membership of around 450 users called for black anarchist flags to be brought to the demonstations.

The Radical Workers' and Students' Bloc Facebook page called on "all anarchists and militant workers and students to join us in forming a 'Radical Workers' and Students' Bloc' on the demonstration, arguing for all those in education to fight the cuts based on the principles of solidarity, direct action, and control of our own struggle.

---------------------------------------------------

You can bet your bottom dollar that the "radical workers and students" are neither workers nor students.

Absolutely. Janey is right. You can, indeed, bet your bottom dollar that the "radical workers and students" are neither.

I have every sympathy with the student contingent who were protesting. Unlike us who are a bit older in the tooth, they haven't got quite so cynical as to expect politicians to actually blatantly lie. I remember being idealistic myself - and I was probably a much better person then than I am now.

There's little point in Cameron asking for an enquiry into how the police handled the situation. I can tell you now - without the benefit of any crystal ball - that they'll have even more bother handling a similar situation in the next couple of years; when their numbers have been severely cut by .... guess who? They were put in an impossible position, and their position will only get worse as their numbers get fewer and their morale gets lower.

Not to worry, the Big Society will sort it all out. If, that is, you've got a secret door behind your wardrobe.

Sue x

At least they showed what they thought.
As William initially said - the Lib Dems promised no tuition fees!!!

..'Rent a mob' are sure to turn up - as I found in the Twyford Down protests, just across the road from me.....


maggie (who's now woken up by incessant the noise from the M3!)

Students - without rent-a-mob- have every right to be angry. They've been seriously let down. Here's an article from that well-known organ of the left - the Telegraph - from April this year

" Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg pledged to oppose any attempt to remove the cap on tuition fees, warning of a "disaster" if student debt levels were allowed to rise further.

The Lib Dems enjoyed electoral success in many constituencies with a large student population in 2005, with young voters attracted by the party's opposition to tuition fees and their stance against the Iraq War"

Well, Mr Clegg - be careful what you predict.

Sue x

Clegg has now - whimpily - said that he was wrong to promise free further education!!!

...Like we can't all say we're sorry after the event!!!

Not quite, though, Maggie

He said that if he'd had any idea of the disastrous state of the economy he'd inherit, he would never have made such promises.

Well, pardon me, I'm not a wise politician, but even I could see this one coming.

Banks piling up toxic debt, and then selling same toxic debt to each other at vastly inflated prices . Ocean Finance on every second advert at £'000s a minute. It was blatantly obvious that the bubble had to burst. And if little-old-me could have seen it coming, I wonder why Clegg couldn't? Maybe because he was so desperate for a bit of power....

Sue x

From what I read, it was Black Bloc types who broke into the building, and a lot of young students thought "ooh, what the heck, we'll go in too!"

They are kids, remember.

And it's not that *no* Black Bloc types are students. ;)

It's that the demostration was legitimate, organized by people who had no intention of vandalizing, and attended by many, many people who did not vandalize. The vandals prey on events like that to do their work.

Believe me, I've been there.

Stood around on the street about 5 years ago watching a standoff between people throwing bits of junk at riot police lined up to keep us away from where George Bush was at his luncheon. The rest of us just looked on, and occasionally somebody told the ones in the front line to stop throwing things. Apparently when we wandered off for lunch ourselves, between events, there was an altercation between those few people and the riot police.

The situation in Toronto this summer was far different. There were Black Bloc troops from all around the continent, and they had their actions planned like a military campaign. Set a car on fire in one place, then go trash storefronts in another -- they carry backpacks with a change of clothes, so they can doff their black outfits and masks and look normal. A couple of them in Toronto were caught emerging from a sewer hole where they had stowed their stuff.

It does seem the vandalism etc was a little spread around in London, and some might even have happened without the Black Bloc types, but these days most people engaged in legitimate protest are careful to distance themselves from them. Some of these students may have been a little naive. And they were a very small minority anyway.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/
ALeqM5hCxhbR0IzwaN59CCVvEhrpUp8PFw?docId=B2925541289584394A000000

Up to 50 demonstrators smashed windows, discharged fire extinguishers and threw debris from the roof of the building. But hundreds of others gathered in a forecourt below booed the culprit and shouted to others to stop damaging the building and throwing missiles.

Earlier on Friday the Met said that 10 of the 54 people arrested during sprawling outbreaks of disorder were aged under 18.

A spokesman said most of the others were students, most aged between 18 and 26, and including 33 men and 21 women.

Ans your point is what, Chris?

Sue - Clegg was (is) a politician with numerous advisors, stating what he stated is no excuse if he didn't believe it!

Can I just say about Ruskin, it may be the one the unionists support, but that is with good reason...the WEA made university open to those who came from a working class background as mature students. Ruskin is known for this.

"Ruskin College is an adult residential college based in Oxford that specialises in providing educational opportunities for adults with few or no qualifications. We aim to recruit and develop those many adults who want a 'second chance' in education."

Those grabbing that 'second chance' are often from the areas of employment where a union was an essential for support (historically) ...like the miners of the SW valleys. I know a number of people who went to Ruskin from Coleg H in Wales, (for mature students).

I suppose that if? we still had our Gold Reserves,(A majority of this was sold off by Brown in the Sale of the Century ) we would have been able to withstand the storm.( This was done before the Bankers ( Spelt with a W )went bust. and it might have helped if Brown had,nt Plundered the Pension Schemes,( Wonder what he did with the money) and people remembered this Government is only recent and have inherited this mess.Which has got to be cleared up.and as usual,The Taxpayer picks up the Bill. While the old Government and its followers Like Ostriches ,Stick their heads in the sand and pretend it never happened.I think "Not Me Gov" is their Credo and are in denial.Its time they saw the light and realised that meybe even our grandchildrens children will be paying off this debt long after we,ve gone unless its sorted now.they don,deserve that.**M**