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rosalind

canadian birth records are a bit hit and miss not fully indexed like uk I will take a look for you though, do you have his fathers name on his marriage cert i may be able to find him on a canadian census if i cant find a marriage

lou

sorry nothing for a marriage

rosalind

cant find a birth in canada
found the attestation papers says he was born in hull yorkshire and gives next of kin as step sister muriel bailey 52 linneaus st hull

date of papers is august 1916

found a passenger list entry which could be him travelling with other troops to montreal


Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about George Wharram
Name: George Wharram
Date of Arrival: 5 Apr 1919
Vessel: Caronia
Search Ship Database: View the 'Caronia' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-14795

army no 919849 rank I/C OR D/C
23RD RESERVES 199TH BATTALION
next of kin wife ( but doesnt give name)
going to montreal

what date did he marry and what is his wifes name?

think this is also the same man i noticed his attestation papers said he was a fireman which this one gives as his occupation

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about George Wharram
Name: George Wharram
Arrival Date: 24 Oct 1924
Birth Year: abt 1895
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Hull Via Newcastle and Abirdeen
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Galileo

he is a member of crew

viv

found olive going to walter in 1913

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Olive Kate Attfield
Name: Olive Kate Attfield
Arrival Date: 30 Oct 1913
Birth Year: abt 1878
Birth Location: England
Birth Location Other: guildford
Age: 35 Years 6 Months
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Southampton, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Majestic

according to a tree on ancestry walter died in england

they had two children
charles floyd who died in uk in 1977 - born florida 1914
donald walter born 1916 in florida died in war in 1943

UK, Army Roll of Honour, 1939-1945
about Donald Tagg
Name: Donald Tagg
Given Initials: D W
Rank: Gunner
Death Date: 30 Jul 1943
Number: 6094981
Birth Place: U.S.A
Residence: Surrey
Branch at Enlistment: Royal Artillery
Theatre of War: Malaya
Regiment at Death: Royal Artillery
Branch at Death: Royal Artillery

it also says that olive died in 1918 in florida

cant find death for her and it may be walter over after the 1910 census and came back before the 1920 if his wife had died

unfortuanlty i cant find any of the family travelling to or from usa

Thanks Lorraine,

That helps sort a few bits out.

Viv

Nudge

I wonder if you could help me. A Jessie Milne married to Alexander Gray, both from Scotland and married there, died in Toronto 1936/37 and her husband in Toronto 1904/05. She was born 1863 and him in 1854. Her parents were James Milne and Helen Anderson and his were William Gray and Mary Smith. Would there be any way of finding out if Jessie and Alexander had any children?

Thanks for trying Lorraine,

I have all that information already I have his War Records and the passenger list of him going to Montreal on the Caronia was him going back to be de-mobbed out of the army though I don't see anything on him coming back to the UK after being de-mobbed to be with his wife Muriel whome he married in 1917 whilst fighting in France they had my father William born 5th June 1919 and my Uncle Raymond 1921 so he must have returned I have their birth certificates, I know he was a Seaman so that is right I have the same info re him arriving in New York on the Galileo that same ship returned to Hull in November 1924 and then he disappeared from their lives .. I do know everything about him from his time in the Canadian Army forwards apart from not having a death for him but I can't find him going to Canada for him to be there to be serving in the Forces there, so that is why I though just maybe he had lied about his birth place and Muriel was not his step sister I think he was courting her and put her down as next of kin. I am at a complete brick wall with him as far as who he was before 1916 as no birth regisitered for a George Wharram born 21/05/1895 and I have checked all the Wharrams out born around that time and none seem to be him. Even on my father William Edwin Kershaw Wharram birth certificate his fathers name has been entered as Edwin Kershaw Wharram with a father George father being a coal miner and then on my Fathers Marriage certificate he has put his father down as George Wharram seaman the same details as on my Uncle Raymond's birth certificate. The Edwin Kershaw Wharram does not exist so think it may have been an error I am totally foxed and think I will never solve who he really was. I know Muriel was with a Charles Little by the time she had her daughter in 1924 and tried to put her down as Mr Little daughter but the certificate was changed so maybe George was her father but had deserted her .. she was born April 1924 and he was on that ship Galileo in October 1924 going to New York ... they never saw him after that. Muriel could not marry Charles Little until 1948 and had by that ime two more daughters by Charles.
It was trying to find out about George that started me on my Family Tree and he is the one I just can't find lol

Thanks for trying much appreciated.

rosalind

on georges marriage cert cert to muriel what is georges father name with fathers name it will be easier to find him in a census, it could be that george is not his 1st name and that is why you cant find his birth, my uncle percy used percy as his 1st name all his life but was actually registered as frederick.

june

looks like they had one daughter

1891 Census of Canada
about Alexander Gray
Name: Alexander Gray
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 35
Birth Year: abt 1856
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head of House: Head
Religion: presby ch
French Canadian: No
Father's Birth Place: Scotland
Mother's Birth Place: Scotland
Province: Ontario
District Number: 119
District: Toronto City
Subdistrict: St Patricks Ward
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Gray 35
Jessie Gray 28
Minnie Gray 6


minnie was born in scotland

1901 Census of Canada
about Alexander Gray
Name: Alexander Gray
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 46
Birth Day & Month: 24 May
Birth Year: 1854
Birthplace: Scotland
Relation to Head of House: Head
Immigration Year: 1887
Racial or Tribal Origin: Scotch (Scotish)
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Presbyterian
Occupation: Laundry Laborer
Province: Ontario
District: York (West/Ouest)
District Number: 131
Sub-District: Toronto (City/Cité) Ward/Quartier No 6
Sub-District Number: G-31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Alexander Gray 46
Jessie M Gray 37
Minnie Gray 16





minnies marraige

Ontario, Canada Marriages, 1801-1926
about Minnie Gray
Name: Minnie Gray
Birth Place: Scotland
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Father Name: Alexander Gray
Mother Name: Jessie
Spouse Name: William J. Scales
Spouse's Age: 21
Spouse Birth Place: Canada
Spouse Father Name: William Scales
Spouse Mother Name: Annie Frick
Marriage Date: 22 Apr 1904
Marriage Location: York
Marriage County: York
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS932_112

miinies children

Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Gordon William Alexander Scales
Name: Gordon William Alexander Scales
Date of Birth: 5 Aug 1905
Gender: Male
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_176

Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Arthur Clarence Scales
Name: Arthur Clarence Scales
Date of Birth: 16 Mar 1907
Gender: Male
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_190

Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Norman Henry Scales
Name: Norman Henry Scales
Date of Birth: 25 Nov 1908
Gender: Male
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_29



Ontario, Canada Births, 1869-1911
about Minnie Elizabeth Scales
Name: Minnie Elizabeth Scales
Date of Birth: 11 Sep 1911
Gender: Female
Birth County: York
Father's Name: William James Scales
Mother's Name: Minnie Gray
Archives of Ontario Microfilm: MS929_217

1911 Census of Canada
about Wm Scales
Name: Wm Scales
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 29
Birth Date: Oct 1881
Birthplace: Ontario
Relation to Head of House: Head
Tribal: Irish
Province: Ontario
District: York South
District Number: 138
Sub-District: Toronto
Sub-District Number: 43
Place of Habitation: 116 Dundee Ave
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Scales 29
Minnie Scales 25
Gordon Scales 5
Clarence Scales 4
Norman Scales 2
Susan Mc Clutchel 47


william and children born ontario
susan is listed as roomer

Lorraine, thank you very much. It was just by chance that I saw your post and I thought it was worth trying but didn't expect to get so much help and so quickly. Once again thank you.

June

Hi Lorraine,

Marriage certificate has entries George Wharram married Muriel Gilbert 8th March 1917 his rank Private D.C.O's Canadian Regiment has his father as George Wharram (deceased) profession of father Coal Miner .... I have checked out all the George Wharram's that could have been his father not many and they don't seem to tie in!!

then as I put previously my fathers birth certificate on the 5th June 1919 has his father down as Edwin Kershaw Wharram mother Muriel Wharram ... there are no Edwin Kershaw Wharram's !!

Then on my fathers marriage to my mother in 1941 he has named his father as George Wharram (deceased) profession Seaman Merchant Navy.

I really think they were trying to hide something as nothing ties to-gether ... weird to say in the first place Muriel was his step sister as ... Muriels mother had had Muriel out of marriage in 1897but then she had married an Ernest Ely Bailey in 1899 so he would have been her step father ... may be George was some how related to him but I don't know !!

It's all a real puzzle.

Hi Lorraine
Thanks for your efforts but it is a William Walker that I am trying to trace, mistake probably due to my garbled information, sorry.
I have since found more information. birth registered as 15th March 1845, name William Walker,though his marriage cert names him as William Thomas Walker. Birthplace Cleobury Mortimer, Stottesden Shropshire.
Fathers Name William Walker.
Mothers name Elizabeth Dallow (I think, birth cert difficult to read).
Wife Ann or Annie Duce. Williams 2nd wife.
He left for Canada sometime after 1887, when his last son was born. Once again any help would be most appreciated. thanks John

rosalind

as stumped as you on this one

i noticed on your fathers birth cert it says george was a merchant seaman

national arcives has naval records you have to pay to view the records but doing a seach only one george wharram came up

Description Name Wharram, George Albert
Official Number: J75425
Place of Birth: Claremont

Date 25 October 1901
Catalogue reference ADM 188/797
Dept Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Series Admiralty: Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Piece 75001-75500
Image contains 1 document of many for this catalogue reference


Number of image files: 1


Image Reference Format and Version Part Number Size (KB) Number of Pages Price (£)
425 / 425 PDF 1.2 1 152 1 3.50
Total Price (£) 3.50


the link is http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7193342&queryType=1&resultcount=3

john

sorry my mistake will take another look for you

Thanks once again for trying Lorraine, hope you did not go to any expense yourself on this search ... Looks to be too early for my George but wonder where place of birth Claremont is .. will have to Google it lol

Yes I think George has got me beat .. think I will just have to give up on that guy.

Kind Regards and thanks for your trying.

Rosalind

Hi Lorraine,

Never mind, thanks very much for your time though, it's much apprecaited.

Regards, Lou

john

there are two william walkers on the 1891 canadian census for around birth year but they both have wives and older children

1891 Census of Canada
about William Walker
Name: William Walker
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 45
Birth Year: abt 1846
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Religion: Methodist
French Canadian: No
Father's Birth Place: England
Mother's Birth Place: England
Province: Ontario
District Number: 58
District: Durham East
Subdistrict: Hope
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Walker 45
Tanny Walker 43
Thomas Walker 13
Fred W Walker 17
Cecil Harriet Walker 5
Earnest E Walker 3
Frank Smith 22


1891 Census of Canada
about William Walker
Name: William Walker
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Age: 47
Birth Year: abt 1844
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Religion: Congregationalist
French Canadian: No
Father's Birth Place: England
Mother's Birth Place: England
Province: Manitoba
District Number: 9
District: Selkirk
Subdistrict: Brandon
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Walker 47
Charlotte Walker 37
J J Walker 18
J M Walker 13
Edwin Walker 7
John Bennett 22
Robt Parrette 24


possibles for passenger list

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
about Wm Walker
Name: Wm Walker
Gender: Male
Age: 49
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Date of Arrival: 10 Apr 1893
Vessel: Lake Ontario
Search Ship Database: View the 'Lake Ontario' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: C-4515

going to winnipeg
occupation mechanic
travelling with george walker aged 19
unfortunatly no info on next of kin

its the only one i could find around year of birth going after 1887

there is also this

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about William Walker
Name: William Walker
Arrival Date: 3 Oct 1889
Birth Year: abt 1847
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Ethnicity/Race­/Nationality: English
Place of Origin: England
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Port of Arrival: New York
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
Ship Name: Gallia

travelling alone
occupation blacksmith
again no next of kin info


on the 1901 canadian there is this one which corresponds to the canadian passenger list

1901 Census of Canada
about Wm Walker
Name: Wm Walker
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Widowed
Age: 57
Birth Day & Month: 1 Jan
Birth Year: 1845
Birthplace: England
Relation to Head of House: Head
Immigration Year: 1893
Racial or Tribal Origin: English
Nationality: Canadian
Religion: Methodist
Occupation: Farmer
Province: Manitoba
District: Marquette
District Number: 9
Sub-District: Birtle
Sub-District Number: B-2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Wm Walker 57
George H Walker 27

nudge

Hi Lorraine

I am looking for John Henry REAN and his wife Marie (or Mary/Maria).

They were born and married in India and then moved to the states in the 20s. He used to be an engineer.

I have a 1930 Census record for Marin County, California which shows them living in rented accommodation and John is working as a Nurseryman, he is in his 50s.

I am looking for a date of death for them both. I believe that there were no children of the marriage. I have no way of knowing whether they remained in California or not.
Hope you can help.
Kind regards

Ann