Genealogy Chat

Sammy I have been reading all the messages giving bil support and I agree but I have to say Ive never heard of ss sending messeges especial over something as sensetive as This 1 If his mother is ill surely she would want to make her peace with her only child. 2 The carer supposedly wrote on his mothers behalf but why didnt she sign the letter or let her feelings be known. 3 Does mrs jones live there. I think Iwould be tempted to visit the address and let someone else go and ask for the mother by name and if mrs Jones answers the door she should be wearing a badge with name and company she represents best of luck keep us posted Isabel

FRIDAY A few more thoughts, I have been made aware that Social Services are not some saintly organisation and are acting on behalf of their patient/client whatever, and I think Isabel maybe right, in that I cannot assume they would be prepared to pass on a letter. Also, after to chatting to Joan Allan last night, she suggested my BIL see his OWN doctor, maybe he would look into the situation, what do you think? Would that be considered a valid reason to make an appointment with your doctor? I know their time is precious. Sam

Just been reading al the replies with interest i don't see why he couldn't make an appointment with his doctor for this reason, at the end of the day this is going to be affecting your Bil mental health which is all covered by the doctor. I wish him all the best of luck with this. Personally i'd have been in my car already and beeen to the address but like you say everyones different.

Thank you Christopher, I agree about BIL mental health too. My sister just rang me, BIL spoken to SS in Aberystwyth again today, they were very nice apparently, but he is still none the wiser. They said their hands are tied. Sam

Sam, Having monitored this thread for a few days, I felt time was right for a response. I am so sorry for the anguish this situation is causing your BIL. The question 'why now' is sure to be raised - but until 'now' it hasn't been possible to find his Mother. Realising there are potential sensitivities all round, my inclination would be to have an 'independent third party' visit his Mother and gauge the situation and tailor their conversation accordingly. A vicar, as mentioned by Ann, would seem to be a suitable candidate - however, I would recommend that your BIL has a discussion and briefs him personally rather than trying to do it 2nd hand. A GP is a clear next option, but as you say, they're awfully busy people - not that vicars aren't, but it's kind of different. A thought. If BIL's Mother is living in her own home, there must be some doubt over whether she has a full-time carer (ie one that sleeps over) - if her illness were so debilitating, would she not be in residential care of some sort? Some bad thoughts. She may be so full of guilt about abandoning her only child that she cannot face seeing him. This can be overcome, I believe. However, if BIL's re-appearance would remind her of a particularly unhappy (even traumatic) period of her earlier life, this will be harder to handle. Anyway, do keep us posted Sam - we're rooting for you all! Take care, Jane

A very, very difficult situation all round. I think that there has to be an intermediary of some kind, whether it be clergy, social services or doctor. Joy

I copied this from the www.salvationarmy.org site 'To relieve the anxiety of enquirers, by assuring them of our concern and the full support of our service To trace relatives in order to advise them a family member desires contact To open a line of communication between an enquirer and the person sought To act as intermediaries until such time as trust is established between the parties Where appropriate, to seek to resolve the difficulties which brought about the break in the relationship' You can find the nearest one by typing in the area

It MIGHT be worth while taking a slightly different tack when he next rings SS. Ok, he know they are not going to tell him a lot, but if he says that he is concerned as her son, estranged or not that they assure him that ' she has the services she requires'. THEN ask direct questions... Does she have say, Meals on wheels or a carer to cook her a hot meal every day. Does she have the nursing care she needs... He might like to 'hint' (irrespective of his intention to do so) that if other services are needed that he might be prepared to help. Understandably he might not be able to or want to (and there is no reaon why he should) BUT .... They might reveal a nugget that will give him an idea of how she really is. 'oh, she doesn't need nursing care/Meals on wheels...' might be the reply waffling now! jess

The Salvation Army does '' ...act as intermediaries until such time as trust is established between the parties ... '', and if the person does not want to have contact, then the SA would have to respect the person's wishes and would tell the enquirer that and, hopefully, the reason. Joy (SA employee)

Another thought Sammy - but a legal thought - if BIL's Mum has an Enduring Power of Attorney this should be lodged with the Court of Protection - might be worth a telephone call. I do know that if someone (i.e. relative etc) is granted an Enduring Power of Attorney then a copy of the Enduring Power of Attorney should be sent to all family members. You must really find out who sent the original letter - your BIL's father and BIL himself are next of kin which obviously with the situation as it is means BIL is next of kin. You can do no more really until you find out (a) who wrote the letter (b) does Mother know anything about letter? I am afraid the only way is to turn up on the doorstep or try speaking to neighbours (with an inventive story) i.e. you are trying to trace people who used to live at that address (people are normally only to willing to gossip) and you need say nothing about any family history,

Hi Sammy, We recently had to check on a power of attorney issue for my father in law. We had been under the impression that one was made and had paperwork to state that one had been issued. However, we went to see a solicitor about this who ran a search for I think it was about £25. It turned out that the paperwork never went thru to the courts and there was no record. Therefore it was invalid. Brother in law had used this power over his father to 'borrow' money which is now living in Australia quite happily with his family and mother in law. His father now lives with us. Sorry to waffle on there. Anyhow, it is worth having a solicitor run a check just in case. Best wishes Jules

You are all stars to stick with me, all this began on Tuesday with the letter arriving from the carer, it feels like we've been living 'it' for weeks. The Salvation Army sounds a good option, and all these messages have been forwarded to my BIL, I will be sure to let you know as soon as anything happens Thank you all Sam

I've emailed you Chris, I wondered where you had been :)

Enduring Power of Attorney only has to be registered with the Court of Protection if the donor has lost their mental capacity, so the court may have no record of it. Also if someone is granted Enduring Power of Attorney a copy of it doesn't have to be sent to all family members. Just wanted to put the record straight here. Good luck and I hope you get the situation resolved.

Hi Sam, This is just a thought,but what about a private detective now I don't know the cost of such things,but I do know of a similiar story that ended in a Happy ending.I wont bore you with the story but if you will like to know it is not a problem.Have been watching thread from the beginning,Denise.

Hi Thank you for your ideas I have no idea about the power of attorney stuff, would that only be if she was not of sound mind? Not sure how a private detective would help. How would he find heath records if my BIL cannot be told anything? And we already know where she is living. There shouldn't be a price put on this, but I have already been warned off that route, I know it can easily run into £100's or more and my sister & BIL have just not got that sort of money. It's lovely to have all your kind wishes :) Sam

Sammy I take your point about the cost of a Private Detective. However, they 'have ways' of finding out stuff which would be completely closed to the rest of us.(Nuff said). Personally, I think the Sally Army is a good route to go down, although they arent free either. But whoever you choose, no-one can force the lady to have contact if she doesn't wish it. So, I think you have to choose an intermediary who you can completely trust - then, if the worst happens and they say she has told them she wants no contact, at least you can believe them, and you may also get an idea of the reason.A skilled intermediary might also be able to lay any fears to rest that she might have, e.g. you are after the money, or youve just come to give her a piece of your mind. I had limited Power of Attorney for my father during his last few years - this was only to be invoked if he was PHYSICALLY unable, say by hospitalisation or an accident, to carry out routine affairs such as paying bills etc.I couldnt actually get at his money!!!! I think the sort of Power of Attorney you mean, where someone is mentally incapable of carrying out their own affairs, has to be countersigned by a Doctor/Doctors. I have been thinking about all this, because I am about the same age as this lady, and trying to think what sort of circumstances would make me NOT want to see someone 'from the past'. I can only come up with 'A disfiguring illness'(including extreme obesity, don't laugh) or perhaps serious depression. If this letter was indeed dictated by her, it has the ring of someone who 'cannot cope' in a long-term sort of way. It does not sound like a terminal illness to me, surely she would welcome the chance to make her peace? And even terminally ill people can manage to write or dictate a letter, not leave it up to a 'Carer'. I am thinking positive thoughts for you and your BIL and hope you have some good news for us all soon. Marjorie

Hi Sam, I meant more to watch what happens at the house ie: the comings and goings probably one week day would be enough. A friend of my sisters was commenting 'thank god we have a normal family',She rang my sister only a few weeks after and said we're not normal anymore,somebody had approached her husband in a car park and explained he was his brother,now the guy had an american accent,so he was a little suspicious anyway went home rung his other two brothers and admitted he had arranged for this guy to come round,turned out their mum and dad had had a baby together and because of religion she was sent away to have baby,he had gone back in the forces,when he came back they met again and married and had three son's but in order not to disrupt her childrens lives when they started getting letters through ss she just sent them back not interested,so eventually he hired a detective,they found out where mother and brothers were living,then he stopped of on the way back from a business trip and he admitted he had previously watched his parents leave from the house and his brothers too,when they asked there parents (who were now in there late 70's it all came out) they had a reunion and have all carried on contact.Now I know it sounds like this guy had money (and he obviously did) but could your b-i-l not do it himself or get a friend to do it. I think I am feeling so desperate for your b-i-l to know the truth that I am starting to think of anything that might solve his not knowing. Denise. Keep smiling Sammy.

I haven't read all the replys so if I'm repeating someone elses sorry. If she is only 56/7, and is ill enough to have carers - it's possible she may be supported by Social Services - if she has a Care Manager or Social Worker if he explains the situation they may be able to approach her on his behalf or offer some advice. I'd start by phoning the local Social Services Adult Services office and asking to speak to the Care Manager of Mrs XXXX - and say he's her son - they'll probably look her name up on their compulter to find out who this might be, and if she's not known to them they would probably say so. It's worth a try - Good luck Jackie

Mmm... see what you mean about private detective. I know contact cannot be forced on her, and he does know that he may have to move on once he's exhausted all his options. but from a practical aspect, my BIL wants to know what is wrong with her, so much has gone through his head, and it really could not be any worse than anything he hasn't already thought of Jackie, thank you but it has already been suggested, and BIL did just that, to be stonewalled at every turn. There is absolutely no way SS will tell him anything. He asked if they could ensure that one final letter is actually given directly to her, their response? - We'll try!!!!! They're are being as much use as a chocolate teapot! They are seemingly sympathetic, but why couldn't they say yes to that one request So now he doesn't want to send it to them. Sam