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Catherine's birth:

KELLY
CATHERINE ANN M
mmn LIVINGSTONE
F
1881
713 / 12
North Berwick

She didn't marry.


Her death:

KELLY
CATHERINE ANN M
83
F
1964
713 / 20
North Berwick


Her parents' marriage:

KELLY ROBERT
LIVINGSTON MARY
1868
713 / 11
North Berwick

In 1871 census, Mary's mother is living with them.

Re Robert's wife "Margaret" in 1881 census -

I think that's either a mistranscription, or a mistake by the enumerator.
Catherine had only just been born, and her mmn is Livingston(e), so her mother was Mary.

[EDIT:
In fact, looking at the census on Ancestry, now I see that an Ancestry user has corrected it to Mary, as a mistranscription.]


There's no wife listed with Robert in 1891 - but he's described as "married", so probably Mary was elsewhere on the night of the census.

And here she is, in hospital:

Mary Livingstone Kelly
in the 1891 Scotland Census
Name Mary Livingstone Kelly
Age 44
Estimated Birth Year abt 1847
Relationship Patient
Gender Female
Where born North Berwick, Haddingtonshire
Registration Number 709
Registration district Haddington
Civil parish Haddington
County East Lothian
Address Haddingtonshire
Occupation Fisherman's Wife
ED Haddington District Asylum
Household schedule number 1
Line 17
Roll CSSCT1891_372

Re Haddington District Asylum:

"As the need for specialist health care for those with mental issues became apparent, East Lothian built a hospital in Haddington in 1866. In the completely un-PC language of the day ‘lunatics’ were sent to Haddington District Asylum a place you might know better as Herdmanflat Hospital.

Contrary to the stereotypical view of Victorian mental health care, the hospital was often commended for the care of it’s patients with an 1876 Inspectors report noting:

‘ The asylum is cheerful, comfortable and homelike, the walls have been papered or painted, the windows fitted with valances. The meals are served with neatness and males and females take alternate places at the table’ "
https://www.johngraycentre.org/connect/blog/a-history-of-health/

Mary's death:

KELLY MARY [also listed as LIVINGSTON ]
71
mmn GLASS
F
1920
709 / 36
Haddington


We know Mary was at home again in 1901.
However, she may have been back in the asylum by 1911.

Only the daughters Catherine (29) and Mary (40) are recorded as living with Robert in 1911.

Probably Mary in 1911:

KELLY MARY
1911
F
62
709/ 19/ 4
Haddington
East Lothian

Spending 6 credits on SP would let you see exactly where she was.

Your opening post contains this:

JANET KELLY, b. May 24, 1863, NORTH BERWICK East Lothian Scotland; d. October 4, 1925. Married David Thomson we want to confirm her son was James Kelly Thomson – Golf Professional


James Kelly Thomson
in the U.S., World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942
Name James Kelly Thomson
Gender Male
Race White
Birth Date 21 Mar 1894
Birth Place North Berwick, Scotland <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Place Schenectady, New York, USA
Military Draft Date 1942
Occupation Self Golf Pro
Height 6
Eye Color Gray
Hair Color Brown
Weight 155
Complexion Light
Next of Kin Florence G. Thomson


James K Thomson
in the New York State, Marriage Index, 1881-1967
Name James K Thomson
Gender Male
Marriage Date 18 Sep 1927
Marriage Place Schenectady, New York, USA
Spouse Florence G Teahan
Certificate Number 38590


James Thomson
in the U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014
Name James Thomson
Social Security Number 108-09-9103
Birth Date 21 Mar 1894
Issue year Before 1951
Issue State New York
Last Residence 12309, Schenectady, Schenectady, New York, USA
Last Benefit 12301, Schenectady, Schenectady, New York, USA
Death Date Mar 1980


Three James Thomson births (with no middle name stated) were registered in North Berwick in 1894.
The middle name Kelly will be a later distinguishing addition when he went to America.

Looking at the three birth certs (6 credits each on SP) will let you know which one is Janet & David's son, and see if the DOB matches the golfer's.


THOMSON
JAMES
M
1894
713 / 22
North Berwick


THOMSON JAMES
M
1894
713 / 82
North Berwick

THOMSON JAMES
M
1894
713 / 38
North Berwick

Thank You Thank You Thank you

It seems that Golf & Fishing are woven through the fabric of the Kellys of Canty Bay

Newspaper clipping from

SHARK CAUGHT IN THE FIRTH OF FORTH

On Wed last week the boat's crew of Mr James Kelly of Cantabay ( a few miles east of the town of North Berwick), when fishing for herrings in Dunbar Bay, were much surprised in finding a shark of great size entangled in their nets, which they with great difficulty succeeded in getting into their boat, where they accomplished it's destruction, but not before one of the crew had his arm slightly lacerated. The monster was upwards of 7 foot in length, 3 foot 9 inches in circumference, 23 inches across the tail, had 3 rows of formidable teeth and was supposed to weigh from 10 cwt to 12 cwt. Mr Kelly intends preserving the skeleton for the inspection of the future visitors to the Bass Rock, of which he is the tacksman.

25 Sept 1838, Saint James' Chronicle, London

This is just one of the papers that carried this report. It was reported in Ireland, Kent, Liverpool and many other places throughout Britain.

First name(s) James
Mother's last name Whitecross
Last name Kelly
Residence Whitekirk, East Lothian, Scotland
Sex Male
Place Whitekirk
Birth year 1802
County Haddingtonshire (East Lothian)
Baptism year 1802
Country Scotland
Baptism date 10 Jun 1802
Record set Scotland, Parish Births & Baptisms 1564-1929
Baptism place WHITEKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Father's first name(s) James
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Father's last name Kelly
Collections from Great Britain, Scotland
Mother's first name(s) Janet

THOMSON
WILLIAM
JANET THOMSON/FR2348 (FR2348)
18/12/1831
718
90 / 65
Prestonpans


Name Janet Thomson
Gender Female
Marriage Date 18 Dec 1831
Marriage Place Prestonpans, East Lothian, Scotland
Father
James Thomson
Spouse
William Thomson


If this is Mary Thomson/ Kelly 1837's death, I would say that the above is her parents' marriage.

KELLY
MARY
84
MMN THOMSON
F
1922
713 / 22
North Berwick

same person.

THOMSON
MARY
84
THOMSON
F
1922
713 / 22
North Berwick

???

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
James Thomson Male Seaman 50 1791 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
William Thomson Male seaman 30 1811 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Janet Thomson Female 25 1816 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
George Thomson Male 6 1835 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Milly Thomson Female 12 1829 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Mary Thomson Female 2 1839 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
High Street, Prestonpans, John Walker, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Thomson Head
Widower Male 32 1819 Sailor Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
George Thomson Son
Unmarried Male 15 1836 Coal miner Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Mary Thomson Daughter
- Female 13 1838 - Prestonpans, Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland


There is a tree on ancestry with a printout for Janet Thomson. She's buried at Prestonpans Parish Church 7 Aug 1848.


https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/64f1eab2f493fd2eed89453b?locale=en


I think this is her death mistranscribed on SP.


JOHNSTON
JANET
-----
39
F
07/08/1848
718
90 / 262
Prestonpans


In short, I don't think the William who married Mary Buchan is your line.

Sorry having CT scan today

You've taken the Kelly's back another generation back,

I love the newspaper clip. Its amazing it made National news

That's really interesting - We know William is Mary Thomson's Father so Janet was her mother.

So was Thomson her maiden and married name ? Was she related to her husband ?

Is 1841 the earliest census you can get ? Whats the earliest year you can get a birth certificate from?

I was told that Mary Thomson died:in 1922 not 1837 - Did you mean Mary Thomson birth was 1837? if so yes it was
Died aged 84
Dwelling: 7 Heriot Place, Haddington, North Berwick Scotland

1841 is the earliest census.

In Scotland , birth certs were only issued from 1855 onwards.
Before that there are only baptism records, if anything at all.

Info on Scotland's People site about Scottish records:

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/record-guides/record-guides-alphabetical

OK so my James Kelly - Born in White Kirk 1800 husband to Janet Hogg. Keeper of Bass rock, Tacksman to Canty Bay , Shark Killer extraordinaire, bearer of long line of golf professionals, Hero of the seas is said to have died 1849 aged 49.

Keeper James Kelly’s death would appear to have been sudden and unexpected; there is, moreover, no indication of how it came about. In September 1843 he was engaged as usual in his business; not so long thereafter, probably at the November term immediately following, we find him replaced, as lessee and keeper by George Adams.

Three Kelly Fishing Families were reported to living in Canty bay on the 1841 census

1841 Scottish Census

Parish Number 731Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman


Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman
Ages

Elizabeth Kelly nee Hogg abt 1806 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 35
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Janet Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 3


Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

James Kelly abt 1776 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 65 ( father)
Mary Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 30
( D in law )
Richard Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 30 ( son )
Robert Kelly abt 1816 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 25 ( Son )
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age 5 Gson)
Ellen Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick age 3 Gdau)
Isabella Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick Age1 (Gdau)

It looks like two Kelly Brothers married two Hogg sisters not sure of the relationship to the 3rd house hold

Ooops I forgot the 3rd family - My line

James Kelly abt 1801 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 40
Janet Kelly nee Hogg abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1824 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 17
John Kelly abt 1826 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 15
Janet Kelly abt 1828 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 13
Cathraine Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
Mary Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 8
Margaret Kelly abt 1835 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 6
George Kelly abt 1837 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5

My dad wrote: James Kelly's lease of Canty Bay and the Bass Island was for a period of nineteen years, from 1845 to 1856

You found a death of James Kelly 1849

1841for James and Janet

James Kelly Male 40 1801 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Janet Kelly Female 30 1811 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland

and 1851 for Janet

Janet Kellie Head
Widow Female 48 1803 Fishermans widow Haddingtonshire (East Lothian),


so looks like the death in 1849 is this James.

Perhaps spending some credits on death certificates would make sense.

"My dad wrote: James Kelly's lease of Canty Bay and the Bass Island was for a period of nineteen years, from 1845 to 1856"


The newspaper clipping is from 1838 so could your dad have made a mistake and meant 1835 to 1846?

BASS ROCK- SHOOTING EXTRAORDINARY

On Fri 30th June, a party visited this celebrated summer resort in Mr Kelly the tacksman's boat, and in the course of five hours, three gentlemen shot no fewer than 437 birds.

19th July 1837
Inverness Courier, Inverness and other papers

You say,
"Keeper James Kelly’s death would appear to have been sudden and unexpected; there is, moreover, no indication of how it came about. "

Why do you think it was sudden?

There will certainly be no record of how it happened, as death certs were not issued at that time, and burial records seldom give any info other than the person's name, and date of burial.

You can look at the image of the burial record on SP, for what it's worth:

KELLY JAMES
-----
49
M
16/02/1849
713
70 / 215
North Berwick

Yes Dad could have made mistakes as he wasn't that great with technology or the internet

Keeper James Kelly’s death would appear to have been sudden and unexpected; there is, moreover, no indication of how it came about was written regarding the employment of the new Keeper of Bass Rock George Adams

It seems poor old Janet was thrown out of Canty Bay . I don't know id the other two Kelly Families in Canty Bay were thrown out too.

I'm loving the newspaper clipping , thats really giving me a huge insight to James Kelly's life

I have made great progress with my family tree thanks to all your expertise.
I think we identified the next Generation as James Kelly ( Born around 1776) & Janet Whitecross who seemed to have resided in Whitekirk.
First name(s) James
Mother's last name Whitecross
Last name Kelly
Residence Whitekirk, East Lothian, Scotland
Sex Male
Place Whitekirk
Birth year 1802
County Haddingtonshire (East Lothian)
Baptism year 1802
Country Scotland
Baptism date 10 Jun 1802
Record set Scotland, Parish Births & Baptisms 1564-1929
Baptism place WHITEKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Father's first name(s) James
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Father's last name Kelly
Collections from Great Britain, Scotland
Mother's first name(s) Janet

It seems the Kellys All lived in Canty Bay:
+Parish Number 731
Ages
Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman


1841 Scottish Census
Parish Number 731

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman Ages
James Kelly abt 1801 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 40
Janet Kelly nee Hogg abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1824 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 17
John Kelly abt 1826 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 15
Janet Kelly abt 1828 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 13
Cathraine Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
Mary Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 8
Margaret Kelly abt 1835 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 6
George Kelly abt 1837 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5


Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

Elizabeth Kelly nee Hogg abt 1806 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 35
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Janet Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 3

TWO KELLY BROTHERS MARRIED TWO HOGG SISTERS. THE THIRD HOUSEHOLD IS A BIT CONFUSING. I THINK JAMES KELLY HEAD IS THE JAMES WHO MARRIED JANET WHITECROSS IN WHITEKIRK.
JANET WHITECROSS IS NOT LISTED in 1841 CENSUS
RICHARD KELLY WHO MARRIED MARY DAVIDSON COULD BE JAMES SON. I am not sure how ROBERT KELLY FITS IN?
JAMES, ELLEN & ISABELLIA not sure who these children belong to?

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

James Kelly ( Head) abt 1776 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 65
Son - Richard Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Dau in law Mary Kelly nee Davidson abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Robert Kelly abt 1816 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 25
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 5
Ellen Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 3
Isabellia Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age1

I was then given this Family which confused me further: Parish 709

Address Haddington
Janet Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
Helen Kelly abt 1830 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 11
John Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 8
Robert Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 5
Peter Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 3
James Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 1
Margaret Yount abt 1841 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 0

And then this confused me more
County East Lothian
Place North Berwick
Church North Berwick Parish Church
Register Number
Date Of Birth 22 Jul 1773
Baptism Date 25 Aug 1773
Forename James
Sex M
Father Forename James
Mother Forename Hellen
Father Surname KELLY
Mother Surname COMB
Abode
Father Occupation fisher
Notes Wts Alexr Mitchell Thomas T** Sponsor Alexr Comb File Number 22509


I was told James Kelly & Janet Whitecross of whitekirk had
James 1802, Anne 1802, Peter 1807, James 1810 ( Why 2 James?) John, 1811, Richard 1812, Janet 1815

Why two Jameses?
The first one must have died, although there's no existing record of it.

Re James, Ellen and Isabellia in 1841 -
from the census, I assume they are all the children of Richard and Mary.
James certainly is their son.

However, there's no record of Ellen and Isabellia's baptisms on SP.

KELLY, JAMES
RICHARD KELLY/MARY DAVIDSON FR1557 (FR1557)
M
23/05/1836
713
60 / 136
North Berwick