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Thank you all so much :)

St Mary's Church in Whitekirk was closed in 2021, and subsequently has been sold by the Church of Scotland to Whitekirk New Life Trust:


https://whitekirkchurch.org.uk/about#403b9678-0b38-4820-8f1d-0e9b49774432

Before it was sold it was part of the Parish of Traprain.
Parish minister's contact details:

Rev Douglas Hamilton can be contacted on 07831 657854, e-mail: [email protected]
https://www.parishoftraprain.org.uk/

Records are not kept at the church, but I assume people can still visit the graveyard.

https://tinyurl.com/29vau4a3


EDIT: Re visiting the graveyard, there are no Kelly gravestones existing at Whitekirk.
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2532530/whitekirk-churchyard

I repeat (at least I think I said already) that Isabellia and Ellen Kelly, because of their ages and the way the names are listed in 1841, are almost certainly children of Richard and Mary.

Posting 1841 yet again:

Richard Kelly
in the 1841 Scotland Census
Name Richard Kelly
Age 30
Estimated Birth Year abt 1811
Gender Male
Where born East Lothian, Scotland
Civil parish North Berwick
County East Lothian
Address Cantybay
Parish Number 713
Household Members (Name) Age
James Kelly 65
Richard Kelly 30
Mary Kelly 30
James Kelly 5
Ellen Kelly 3
Isabellia Kelly 1
Robert Kelly 25


As there is no existing baptism record for either Ellen or Isabellia, we can't prove it, but if it were my family, I would believe it to be true.


Haddington is a TOWN in East Lothian.
East Lothian was called Haddingtonshire until 1921.

Canty Bay is near North Berwick, about 13 miles away from Haddington.

The Haddington family are not in Canty Bay.

Kelly is a very common name.
There is no reason to assume that the family in Haddington is (or isn't) necessarily related to the family in Canty Bay.

There were a limited and oft-repeated selection of first names used in Scotland in those days - and there's also the naming pattern tradition.

You must do whatever you feel necessary to find the info you need for yourself.
Good luck

Are you aware of the Scottish naming pattern - have a read of these articles -

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/blog/help/traditional-scottish-naming-patterns

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/guides/research-guides/forenames

It could well mean that the children of two brothers/sisters might well have very similar names - especially if brothers married sisters! Or could appear very similar if they are children of cousins.

In answer to the question at the start of the last post.

You use every resourse - if that means visiting then do so, if that means newspapers - read them. If that means local records office research their holdings - I could go on.

I would really like to find out about James Kelly living in WhiteKirk Marrying Janet Whitecross. Do I visit church / Graveyard in Whitekirk? Newspapers ? I realise that there are no census etc

1841 Census:
James Kelly ( Head) abt 1776 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 65
Son - Richard Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Dau in law Mary Kelly nee Davidson abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Robert Kelly abt 1816 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 25 - THIS ROBERT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE SON OF JAMES AND JANET WHITECROSS ?
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 5
WE NOW KNOW THIS JAMES KELLY BELONGS TO RICHARD & MARY

Ellen Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 3
Isabellia Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age1
DO THESE GIRLS BELONG TO RICHARD OR ROBERT?

I've realised Haddington is a county, so when address states Haddington could it be Canty Bay? The Kelly Family in Haddington have very similar names

This confused me :
Parish 709
Address Haddington
Janet Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
Helen Kelly abt 1830 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 11
John Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 8
Robert Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 5
Peter Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 3
James Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 1
Margaret Yount abt 1841 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 0
AND HOW DOES THIS KELLY FAMILY in HADDINGTON CONNECT TO MY KELLY CANTY BAY FAMILY. The names are very similar
County East Lothian
Place North Berwick
Church North Berwick Parish Church
Register Number
Date Of Birth 22 Jul 1773
Baptism Date 25 Aug 1773
Forename James
Sex M
Father Forename James
Mother Forename Hellen
Father Surname KELLY
Mother Surname COMB
Abode
Father Occupation fisher
Notes Wts Alexr Mitchell Thomas T** Sponsor Alexr Comb File Number 22509

Thank you Grey Ghost

Thank you Argyll Gran -

"
I do not know who Robert is or who the three children belong to." (ie - James, Ellen and Isabellia)"

I posted James's baptism today at 10:53 - definitely the son of Richard and Mary.

Thanks to you guys I have made great progress with my family tree.

I was told that the head of my family tree was James Kelly born 1801 in White Kirk.

The next generation up seems to be James Kelly who married Janet Whitecross in White Kirk.

So I have deduced that the family lived in Canty Bay

1841 Scottish Census
Parish Number 731

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman Ages
James Kelly abt 1801 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 40
Janet Kelly nee Hogg abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1824 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 17
John Kelly abt 1826 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 15
Janet Kelly abt 1828 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 13
Cathraine Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
Mary Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 8
Margaret Kelly abt 1835 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 6
George Kelly abt 1837 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

Elizabeth Kelly nee Hogg abt 1806 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 35
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Janet Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 3

SO TWO KELLY BROTHERS MARRYING TO HOGG SISTERS

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

I am Presuming the head of the family James Kelly born 1776 who was married to Janet Whitecross is here living with his son Richard Kelly who married Mary Davidson

James Kelly ( Head) abt 1776 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 65
Son - Richard Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Dau in law Mary Kelly nee Davidson abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Robert Kelly abt 1816 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 25
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 5
Ellen Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 3
Isabellia Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age1

I do not know who Robert is or who the three children belong to.

This confused me :
Parish 709
Address Haddington
Janet Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
Helen Kelly abt 1830 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 11
John Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 8
Robert Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 5
Peter Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 3
James Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 1
Margaret Yount abt 1841 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 0
AND HOW DOES THIS FAMILY CONNECT TO MW
In which case this would be his birth showing his parents

County East Lothian
Place North Berwick
Church North Berwick Parish Church
Register Number
Date Of Birth 22 Jul 1773
Baptism Date 25 Aug 1773
Forename James
Sex M
Father Forename James
Mother Forename Hellen
Father Surname KELLY
Mother Surname COMB
Abode
Father Occupation fisher
Notes Wts Alexr Mitchell Thomas T** Sponsor Alexr Comb File Number 22509

Re James 1802 -

I thought that perhaps he was baptised hastily if a sickly child, and I therefore had a look at the image on SP.

Interestingly, his baptism is part-way down a page of 1805 baptisms.

The record says his birth was 3 June 1802.
The date of baptism is immediately below, and it just says the date was the 10th (no month or year specified), which has made the transcriber assume the baptism was on 10 June 1802.

But as it's in the middle of a list of 1805 baptisms, perhaps it means 10 June 1805.

EDIT:
On closer inspection, although the baptisms on that page are all 1805, they're not listed chronologically.


ADDED:
John 1805's baptism is on the same page.
He was born on 25 Jan 1805, and baptised 6 Feb 1805.

No time to look through all of thread, so if noted before - apologies..

Scotland's People show baptisms under surname Kelly to James and Janet nee Whitecross for
James 10.6.1802
John 6.2.1805
James 4.6.1810
Janet 4.1.1815

under surname Kellie
Ann 16.12.1802
Peter 20.7.1807
Richard 7.3.1812

Easiest explanation for 2 x James is that the first one died (probably after John and Peter were born) and the next son was named for the one that died.

NO burials in the parish show on SP - (not unusual for this to happen)

What I find "odd" is the baptism of James in June 1802 and then Ann in Dec 1802 unless the year is wrong for one of them or James was baptised late perhaps.

Re James, Ellen and Isabellia in 1841 -
from the census, I assume they are all the children of Richard and Mary.
James certainly is their son.

However, there's no record of Ellen and Isabellia's baptisms on SP.

KELLY, JAMES
RICHARD KELLY/MARY DAVIDSON FR1557 (FR1557)
M
23/05/1836
713
60 / 136
North Berwick

Why two Jameses?
The first one must have died, although there's no existing record of it.

I have made great progress with my family tree thanks to all your expertise.
I think we identified the next Generation as James Kelly ( Born around 1776) & Janet Whitecross who seemed to have resided in Whitekirk.
First name(s) James
Mother's last name Whitecross
Last name Kelly
Residence Whitekirk, East Lothian, Scotland
Sex Male
Place Whitekirk
Birth year 1802
County Haddingtonshire (East Lothian)
Baptism year 1802
Country Scotland
Baptism date 10 Jun 1802
Record set Scotland, Parish Births & Baptisms 1564-1929
Baptism place WHITEKIRK, EAST LOTHIAN, SCOTLAND
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Father's first name(s) James
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Father's last name Kelly
Collections from Great Britain, Scotland
Mother's first name(s) Janet

It seems the Kellys All lived in Canty Bay:
+Parish Number 731
Ages
Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman


1841 Scottish Census
Parish Number 731

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman Ages
James Kelly abt 1801 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 40
Janet Kelly nee Hogg abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1824 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 17
John Kelly abt 1826 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 15
Janet Kelly abt 1828 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 13
Cathraine Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
Mary Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 8
Margaret Kelly abt 1835 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 6
George Kelly abt 1837 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5


Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

Elizabeth Kelly nee Hogg abt 1806 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 35
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 30
Janet Kelly abt 1831 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 10
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 5
Elizabeth Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian 3

TWO KELLY BROTHERS MARRIED TWO HOGG SISTERS. THE THIRD HOUSEHOLD IS A BIT CONFUSING. I THINK JAMES KELLY HEAD IS THE JAMES WHO MARRIED JANET WHITECROSS IN WHITEKIRK.
JANET WHITECROSS IS NOT LISTED in 1841 CENSUS
RICHARD KELLY WHO MARRIED MARY DAVIDSON COULD BE JAMES SON. I am not sure how ROBERT KELLY FITS IN?
JAMES, ELLEN & ISABELLIA not sure who these children belong to?

Address Canty Bay - Occupation Fisherman

James Kelly ( Head) abt 1776 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 65
Son - Richard Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Dau in law Mary Kelly nee Davidson abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 30
Robert Kelly abt 1816 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 25
James Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 5
Ellen Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age 3
Isabellia Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland North Berwick East Lothian Age1

I was then given this Family which confused me further: Parish 709

Address Haddington
Janet Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
John Kelly abt 1811 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 30
Helen Kelly abt 1830 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 11
John Kelly abt 1833 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 8
Robert Kelly abt 1836 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 5
Peter Kelly abt 1838 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 3
James Kelly abt 1840 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 1
Margaret Yount abt 1841 East Lothian, Scotland Haddington East Lothian 0

And then this confused me more
County East Lothian
Place North Berwick
Church North Berwick Parish Church
Register Number
Date Of Birth 22 Jul 1773
Baptism Date 25 Aug 1773
Forename James
Sex M
Father Forename James
Mother Forename Hellen
Father Surname KELLY
Mother Surname COMB
Abode
Father Occupation fisher
Notes Wts Alexr Mitchell Thomas T** Sponsor Alexr Comb File Number 22509


I was told James Kelly & Janet Whitecross of whitekirk had
James 1802, Anne 1802, Peter 1807, James 1810 ( Why 2 James?) John, 1811, Richard 1812, Janet 1815

Yes Dad could have made mistakes as he wasn't that great with technology or the internet

Keeper James Kelly’s death would appear to have been sudden and unexpected; there is, moreover, no indication of how it came about was written regarding the employment of the new Keeper of Bass Rock George Adams

It seems poor old Janet was thrown out of Canty Bay . I don't know id the other two Kelly Families in Canty Bay were thrown out too.

I'm loving the newspaper clipping , thats really giving me a huge insight to James Kelly's life

You say,
"Keeper James Kelly’s death would appear to have been sudden and unexpected; there is, moreover, no indication of how it came about. "

Why do you think it was sudden?

There will certainly be no record of how it happened, as death certs were not issued at that time, and burial records seldom give any info other than the person's name, and date of burial.

You can look at the image of the burial record on SP, for what it's worth:

KELLY JAMES
-----
49
M
16/02/1849
713
70 / 215
North Berwick

"My dad wrote: James Kelly's lease of Canty Bay and the Bass Island was for a period of nineteen years, from 1845 to 1856"


The newspaper clipping is from 1838 so could your dad have made a mistake and meant 1835 to 1846?

BASS ROCK- SHOOTING EXTRAORDINARY

On Fri 30th June, a party visited this celebrated summer resort in Mr Kelly the tacksman's boat, and in the course of five hours, three gentlemen shot no fewer than 437 birds.

19th July 1837
Inverness Courier, Inverness and other papers

1841for James and Janet

James Kelly Male 40 1801 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland
Janet Kelly Female 30 1811 Haddingtonshire (East Lothian), Scotland

and 1851 for Janet

Janet Kellie Head
Widow Female 48 1803 Fishermans widow Haddingtonshire (East Lothian),


so looks like the death in 1849 is this James.

Perhaps spending some credits on death certificates would make sense.