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Hi Derek..........Been quiet on your boards for a while, hope you are well.

When you have a few moments to spare could you check the details of a marriage for me?

SUSAN VIOLET RUTLAND, born 1899 Longford, married in Burton 1817 possibly to ROBERT S MARTIN. Middle initial possibly STIRLING

Need to confirm her parents if possible to make sure I have correct wedding. They were William Rutland and Mary Ann previously Gregson.

Many Thanks
Susan :-D

Hello Susan..well, I can confirm your findings.Susan Violet Rutland baptised Longford 10.12.1899..married Robert Stirling Martin (b.1897) at Burton on Trent RD 1918.......

The Martin family appear to have originated in Scotland..thence to Poplar in London...great movongs of most of the family to New Zealand in 1874..followed later by Robert and Susan and family...They both died..in fact they all died..Hawkes bay NZ.

Derek

Thank you so much Derek. Always very generous with your time. Don't know what we would do without you.

Many Thanks
Susan :-D

Keep 'em coming Susan!!

Good evening Derek, can you take a look for anything on Lamentary Boswell born 1857 Newall. I think her mother was Mary but no idea of her father's name.

ps. Hope you and yours are well

Hello Gooner........No idea chuck!!!
I'll give you the 1861 Census, and you can try and work it out!!

Gypsies!!!!!

all Boswell:

Rhoda..head of household...widow aged 50..born Norfolk
Samson..Niece (?????) aged 20..born Lincs
Lucretia daughter.....aged 27 born Staffs
Billinda..daughter aged 24 born Warwickshire
Susan ..gran-daughter aged 6 born Derbys
MARY visitor unmarried aged 55 born Lincolnshire
Isaiah Niece (??????) aged 26 born Mickleover
Emma widow aged 24 born Belper
Eliza Niece aged 23 born Repton
LAMENTARY aged 4.. niece born Newhall Derbys......

Not a husband in sight!!! no idea who is niece to whom....and I can't tell whether those below MARY Visitor............belong to her or not!!

Good luck!!

Derek xx

Thanks Derek. I am having no luck with this one at all. It does help if they don't keep changing their names :-|.

Hello Thomas...thank you for your PM...........as I said in my reply, it is much better to converse on the Thread, and I have found quite a lot of information on Thomas Needham and his wife Esther Plant...once you have found your way here.....

Derek

Hi Derek,

Thank you, and to share this too;

I am researching my paternal grandmother's family, who appear to be descended from one Thomas NEEDHAM. He appears in the Ashford Census of 1841as married to Esther.

I noticed that in 2009 you had an exchange of e-mails with a lady who appeared to be looking for NEEDHAMs both in her own line and in a friends.

I helping her you referred to Thomas Needham Bapt 1801 Ashford married Esther.

This ties in with the parents of my GG grandfather. Can you tell me anything more about him or her, in particular his forebearers?

Thanks

Tom

Hello Tom....I'm not ignoring you, just bear with me, I'm working hard!!
Have now got back from Ada Needham 1888...to Joseph Needham 1788 nd his brother THOMAS NEEDHAM 1796.............both sons of Joseph and Martha of Hartington.
Joseph first took over the farm from his father..and Thomas was living in Ashford as a Farm Labourer in 1841. By 1851 he has in turn taken over the farm from his brother Joseph.
Just t o be clear. the names on the census returns re all very close..Earl Sterndale. Hartington, Hurdlow, High Needham are withint spitting distance of each other.At some point a number of the Needhams moved to Salford.Manchester..but in fact, also very close.

I am at the moment collating all the baptisms and marriages precisely. and will give it all to you, in a couple of days.

For now the Tree looks like this:-

Ada Needham 22.09.1888 Salford..daughter of:-
John Needham 1859-1937 and Mary Jane nee Davies 1861-1907

John..son of:-

Joseph Needham 1825 and hannah nee Hall 1830

in turn son of THOMAS NEEDHAM 1796 -1864 and Esther nee Plant

son of Joseph and Martha

son of Joseph...........

More later

Ok Tom..the best I can do for the moment is:

JOSEPH NEEDHAM 05.06.1766 - 09.12.1842..(Son of John and Ellen)
married: 16.06.1785 Hartington
MARTHA WARDLE born 1767 died04.12.1811

They had the following children, and a degree of tragedy..:-

Mary 27.11.1785
William 15.04.1787... buried 20.09.1791
Esther 04.07.1790... died October 1791.....buried together (Headstone photo)
William 29.04.1792
Esther 18.04.1794
THOMAS 25.03.1796..married Esther Plant see below.....
Joseph 17.10.1788
Isaac 25.07.1802.died 1806
Martha 1810..died 1826 buried 10.12.1826

Joseph and his wife Martha were living in Salford when they died, but they, along with Martha aged 16 and Isaac aged25..died 25.04.1827 are all buried together in earl Sterndale...i do have a photo of their Headstone..along with a separate Burial and Headstone for Esther and William.
Although the Parish records say that Esther and William were buried 20.09.1791..that is likely to be 20.10.1791..because the headstone says that William died 15.10.1791..and Esther 16.10.1791..something terrible must have happened!!

Martha, wife of Joseph died in 1811 having never recovered from the birth of Martha in 1810

ESTHER PLANT was the daughter of James Plant..she was baptised 22.04.1798 and married THOMAS NEEDHAM 31.05.1819..

Their son Jospeh 09.08.1824 was the father of John Needham 14.11.1859..who was the father of Ada needham 05.12.1888..who married Thomas O'Connor.

Loads more details if you don't have them, but I suspect you have,
.
Contatc me if i can help you further.

Derek.

Hello Derek.
Would you by any chance have the burial records for these two:-

George Frise died September 1899.

Elizabeth Ann Died 1906.

Both living at 4 Balaclava Road Normanton, Derbyshire.

Your help would be very much appreciated.

Alan.

Derek,

Thank you for your help. There is a rich seam of information here. What I do know is that Joseph (born 1825) went to Salford and in 1851 is the owner of a general provisions store, He appears to be married to an Elisabeth Needham, who was 15 years older (it would appear that "cougars" are not a modern phenomena) and died in 1857/8.

She appears to be a bit of a mystery lady; apart from her name no one knows much about her.

Family legend has it that Joseph was the first person to bring fresh milk into Manchester on a daily basis. I am not sure how true this may be, but he certainly established a legacy with a dairy in George Street.

Although I live in Kent, I am working in Manchester and, as I type, I am less than half a mile from George Street, although no evidence of this remains.

However, I have also been to Hurdlow and High Needham, Monyash and Ashford; as you say these are all close together.

I found the Census entry for Thomas living in Warslow and I think I have also found the farm. Surprisingly the barn has been converted and I may have the chance to stay where my forbearers lived.

I plan to go to Earl Sterndale and will get to the bottom of the tragedy.

Tom

Hello Tom..her name was Elizabeth Mellor whom he married in 1846.she was born 1811 and I think she died in 1852...but I will look her up for you....Mellor is a good derbyshire name.

Derek

Derek,
Thank you,
I have a record of death from Salford for an Elizabeth Needham which suggests that she may have died in 1857/8.

Looking at the children's deaths; Scarlet Fever is a possible explanation. There were a few epidemics in the late 1790's and children were particularly vulnerable.

Tom

Tom..she definitely died Manchester December 1852 aged 41...you are looking at the wrong entry.
She was born at Monyash in 1811..........but no such baptism exists..I have the register.

Which suggests, along with the large difference in ages, that MELLOR was her previously MARRIED name. Clearly she was into Toyboys!!.

The best I can do at the moment is give you two POSSIBILITIES of her maiden name...taken from her Birthdate of 1811 at Monyash...giving only two Elizabeth baptised in that year.....ALLSOP(P)..and HOWSLEY..or HOUSLEY...

Looking for a marriage to a Mellor.........

The obvious nswer is to be found on her marriage cert to Joseph Needham..which should read ELizabeth Mellor formerly xxxxx.......Unless she WAS a 35 year old spinster when she married........unlikely.

Derek.

Hello Alan..trouble with this one is that it is difficult to differentiate between South Normanton and Pinxton. There appears to be a lot of crossover.
I have the Pinxton Parish records ,but not those for South Normanton, and at the moment I cannot spot a Frise burial..
I have found most other things about the family..their origins in Plymouth etc.....but I'll keep trying........and let you know.
I might pop up to South Normanton............

Hello Derek.

Thank you for your time.

Any help is much appreciated.

Alan.

Hi Derek,

The Frise family was living and died in Derby.Balaclava Road is in Normanton Derby.
So South Normanton or Pinxton would be the wrong place to look for them.

Balaclava Road is opposite to where the demolished Normanton barracks was.

meercat

ooooops..thank you Meercat!!