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Hello Derek

Please can you help me. My Gt Aunt Eliza Bacon b1855 Church Greasley Derbyshire married Thomas Twiggs b 1855 Ullesthorpe Leicestershire. They married 1899 Mansfield area. Both worked at Hardwick Hall and they had 13 children.

I understand they both died 1942 and are buried IN A UNMARKED GRAVE at ST JOHN THE BAPTIST CHURCH AULT HUCKNELL DERBYSHIRE by the steps of the belfry tower.

My burning question is "WHY" are they in a unmarked grave considering they had 13 children to take care of them.

Is there any record of burials like this for this church?

Jenny X

Hello Jenny........I am looking into this..but it was not unusual to be buried in an unmarked grave.....most of my early family who died 1810 to 1842 were burued in Derbyshire.only one of them has any stone......and that was put there later....It probably just means..no headstone............which would be usual for estate workers if they were living close to poverty........Headstone were expensive!!

ASt the moment I have the following.They were NOT married at Mansfield in 1899..they were married in Belper District in 1874..and by 1899 had pretty well all their children!..........the 1901 census lists nine children up to 1894........

There is a Newspaper article for the Burial of Eliza Twiggs..which I cannot see until FMP clears up a fault..and that took place at Ault Hucknall March 1942.
I can only see a small part of the report at the moment.....Thomas Twigg was living at 6. Park Avenue Glapwell..and there are some names of mourners present.which I'll get to you as soon as i can.....

Do not be surprised that none of the large family seems to have subscribed to a Headstone.............most of them would have been long gone by 1942..and who knows how many of them were still alive even?

One more snippet of info......Thomas Twigg won a Scotching Contest at Palterton on the hardwick Estate in 1902!.......and again in 1903..Scotching is some form of hedge-cutting or making.

More later..but I suspect your answer is.......Poverty......
P.S..Thomas died in Don Valley Yorkshire December 1942.......

Later EDIT...I now have the report of the death and the interment of Wliza Twigg..who died 01.03.1942..and was buried on a thursday before the paper was published on the 13th......There were in fact a lot of mourners..most of them Mr and Mrs Twiggs of various initials as well as the husband and three other ladies who were probably family........have found nothing yet to show that Thomas was buried with his wife.
Derek.

Hi Derek

THANK YOU so much for all that info. I don't know how you do it but I'm glad you do.

Yes I expect it all boils down to poverty as you say. Eliza was a canny lady she used to make lemonade and sell it to all the hikers that passed by her cottage and she seemingly was the village herbalist too.

You are such a gem Derek, Thank you for all the info and all the time and effort you put in to helping all of us.

Jenny X

Thank you Jenny for your kind words......as a bonus i have some information about the children of Thomas and Eliza that you may or may not have:-


I have found 11 .maybe 12..since the marriage was 1874.you might like to know that for some reason they went back to Ullesthorpe Leicestershire where number one daughter MARY was born in 1875..as Alice Mary she married E.w. Humphreys at Ault Hucknall 17.06.1902 aged 28.
JAMES ws born at Alfreton 1876 as was HARRIET in 1879........she married J.C Palmer at Ault Hucknall 14.01.1899 aged 20..........James was a witness.
the rest of the children were baptised at Ault Hucknall as follows:

Thomas 20,06.1882..married Louisa Giles 24.04.1905
ADA 17.02.1884 buried aged 1 18.07.885
ALFRED MORGAN 14.06.1885 buried as infant 19.12.1885
John William 26.09.1886
Frank 08.09.1889
Patience 27.09 1891.married in mansfield District (two possible spouses)
Edward 01.10.1893
MARTHA..20.10.1895 buried 01.01.1896.

Have found also Sarah born 1881 Ullesthorpe..buried Ault Hucknall 02.07.1910 aged 29............and possible Ernest Edward Twiggs born 1908 buried 21.10.1909

hope you find that interesting!

Derek

Hello Derek

Thank you so very very very much I am thrilled to bits I didn't know anything about the children of Eliza & Thomas Twiggs That extra info means such alot. I can see you are right about some of the children having died before their parents death.

I am so grateful and you are an amazingly kind man

THANK YOU

Jenny XX

Hello Jenny....as promised, i took a wee trip up to Hardwick today..and had a look at the graveyard at Auly Hucknall........I found nothing of any use to you.

But i did have a word with the Sexton/Verger..a venerable chap called Edwin Franklin, who came up with an amazing handwritten plano what is virtually four different areas of Burials.

There are huge gaps..where burials would have taken place ,but where there are no gravestones...........and he told me that during the War there was a lot of chaos and lost records...and of course he re-inforced my suggestion that a Headstone..particularly for lowly Estate Workers, would have been a luxury beyond measure............

There is a grave..unmarked..of Louisa Twigg and Thomas Twigg. which,judging by its position on the plan was probably about the 1930's/1940's.but nothing exists. EDIT 23.29 Sunday..have now found that Thomas Twiggs..son of your Thomas...married LOUISA GILES at Ault Hucknall 1905.....they are obviously buried together......

As for Eliza Twiggs being buried in the churchyard in the environs of the Bell Tower..very unlikely, because the Churchyard does not contain any burials of the 20th century...........and when I pointed out that there was a very good turn ot for the Funeral of Eliza Twiggs..he said yes....the Hardwick people respected and looked after their workers..but not to the extent of providing marked Graves.

So there you have it.......Marked Graves were for thos who could afford them..in fact..a minority of all 19th Century burials...

Derek

Derek I'm sending the biggest hug just for you.

Thank you so much for going to so much trouble on my behalf. I hope you didn't think it was a wasted journey. At least now we know that Eliza is buried elsewhere. Your message is so interesting to me I have learnt that Thomas & Louisa are buried there which I didn't know before.

The Sexton Edwin Franklin sounds like a knowledgeable and very interesting gent that was good that you got to meet him.

Once again Derek Thank you so much I appreciate everything you have done and the information you have given me.

Jenny <3

Good morning Jenny.......I may have given you the wrong impression..Eliza IS buried there, but in an unmarked grave..but we don't know the position........She is definitely there because the local paper said so in its "Funerals"..attended by most of the surviving Twiggs.including Thomas himself....

Hi Derek..................apologies for the delay in getting back to you.
101 things to do again and never a minute to spare !!

I did see that there were several William Dalbys...........thanks for the kind offer of getting the cert for me. I will need to order another couple from GRO soon so will get it at the same time.

As always many thanks for your continued help. Dont know what we would do without you.

Susan :-)

hello Derek

back again please can you help I have had trouble finding marrages etc for the family you found me a few weeks ago was Samuel Purdy 16/12/1744 kirk hallam was he married to sivill fox

and any thing else you can find about thisbranchas I am getting nowhere :-| :-|

thank you and your magic

sally w

<3

Well Sally........I think a lot of problems are caused by the different spellings of Purdy/Purday/Purdey.......you'd do well to ignore them.because they are so often just interchangeable..and spelling depended on who was writing them down.......Sivil..is Civil, and Civel........and probably Sybil.

SAMUEL PURDAY di marryr CIVIL Fox 17.09.1767..at Crich..and this may well be your William 1744 Kirk hallam.becasue he died at Crich aged 42.......but not 100%

Samuel Purdey had four children by Civil..and they might help you:

Ann 14.08.1768
Jane 04.11.1770
William 11.10.1772........
Civel 10.10.1778

Interestingly..the Crich PR's give a christening of REBECCA FOX 12.09.1760 daughter of Civel Fox......Spurious..which means illegitimate...

That's the best i can do on this sepcific problem

Derek.

Hi Derek
I hope that you can help me. My gr Aunt Ethel May Pomeroy appears as a resident ot the St Christophers Railway Orphanage, Derby in the 1901 Census aged 10. I would like to find out when she was admitted to the Orphanage. It was probably in about 1894 or 1895. Her father had died in 1892. She emigrated to South Africa in 1910.
Thanks in advance
Martin
South Africa

hello Derek

thanks very much that's very helpful

I can add another spelling on my gt granddad s birth cert it is spelt perdew :-S

I think I might leave this branch for a while ihavecome across some gapswhich I thought I had done so I will have to go back

thanks again

be seeing you soon I am sure :-D

sally w <3

Hi Martin........It was St Christopher's Railway Servants' Orphanage......opened August 5th 1874.......it took children between the ages of SIX and TWELVE.and they had to leave at age fifteen...so..Ethel May would not have been 6 till 1897..........it's not much of an answer but if you Google "St Christopher's Railway Servant's Orphanage" you will be pleasantly surprised at the information given....including a series of photographs of children in 1909..when Ethel was certainly there.

Actual Roll cards and admissions 1874-1927 are available at Derbyshire Records Office in Matlock..............and i visit it quite often, so perhaps I'll find an exact answer quite soon....

All the best

Derek.

Thank you so much, Derek. I'd really appreciate it if you could find some information on Ethel for me. Her father, Arthur Shewbrook Pomeroy had worked for Great Western Railways in Reading and died suddenly at the age of 38 when Ethel was 1 or 2 years old. She appears to have left the Orphanage in about 1903 when she went to live with her grandmother in London.

All the best
Martin

Hi Derek
Ethel May POMEROY was born Apr-Jun 1891. Her father died in Dec 1892 when she was about 18 months old. She would have been 6 in about May 1897, when she could have been admitted to the Orphanage. I believe that she lived there until about 1903 when she would have been about 12. That would tie up with "it took children between the ages of SIX and TWELVE". In 1901, Ethel's widowed mother was working as a "Servant Cook" at a large household in Coulsdon, Surrey, having apparently left her daughter in the care of the Orphanage.
Best Wishes
Martin

hello Derek

here I am again needing your help I hope you do not mind me keep comeing back another crate of whisky might give me the right anser :-D :-D

well here goes

William Purdy b 14/10/1821 langly mill notts my gt grand dad I am all right with

ihave one sibling john b 1830 who I can only find on the 1841 census with parents

john b 9/9/1801ilkeston and mary wife also jane brown aged 4

I can not find a marrage or any other census with them on they seem to vanish I have William on censuses

my 3 gt grand dad john b 18/4/1779 ockbrook Derbyshire naried hanah porter and iam struggleing with

any info you can magic I would be so pleased

hankyou sally w <3

Well Sally.. my dear favourite disciple..it would help if you gave me the right information!!
Take the Ockbrook connection.......like John Purdy 18.04.1779..married Hannah Porter???????????

Welcome to the exceeding brilliance of discerning mind.............

I'm working my way through the morass of your request..but let's apply the magic to Ockbrook........

JOHN PURDY baptised 18.04.1779
Mary Purdy baptised 03.11.1783
Richard baptised 03.04.1785
Thomas baptised 11.10.1786............

were all children of THOMAS PURDY and HANNAH POTTER..who were married at Ockbrook 13.10.1777............

so it would be a massive coincidence if John then went on to marry a Hannah Porter..............

William Purdy 14.10.1821 was baptised at Selston..not Langley Mill..though the two places are incestuously close together.......and he married Martha Fullwood. OND 1848.though he is listed as Purdew.......and I have a full history for him and his kids till 1881.

The only Ilkeston link i have found as yet is a marriage:

William Purdy (widower) to Hannah Mountain (widow ) 22.07.1822

God! I do look after you!! xx

hello Derek

I am on my knees grovelling you did say keep em comeing :-D :-Dbut I am sorry if I over did it but I am amazed you found out in under an hour I have searched for hours and hours and still was unable to get it right I think I shall put it down to old age and insanity

your magic certainly worked thankyou so much

I have William birth cert and it is spelt purdew it is too small print for me to look at it now so iwill wait for some one to look

but it is keeping me busy and my mind off other things

I am so greatfull

sally w <3

Hi Sally.......leave the Gin alone and sit down and concentrate..cos this is important, and could be the answer to all your dreams:

JOHN PURDY 09.09.1801 was actually baptised 18.10.1801 at Ilkeston Independent Non Conformist Chapel.......he was the son of John and Ruth........

John senior who married Ruth was from the \Long Eaton area...........i.s Ockbrook..and in fact was the self same JOHN PURDY baptised 18.04.1779..the son of thomas Purdy and hannah Potter who married 13.10.1777..........
......so you had all the right Purdy's..but, in the words of Eric Morecombe.."not necessarily in the right order.......

John 1801 of course married MARY BROWN.....and they were the parents of William 1821.............

you now have them in the right order........if you're still awake!!

Derek



:-D :-D