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Hi

The certificates arrived this morning and, sure enough, Eleanor Richer's Mother was Eliza Allen Richer nee Holland. This means, as we suspected, Albert Richer's parents were the same and I think that is as close as I'm going to get to prove that this is my Albert Barnard, don't you?

I also received Eliza Allen's death cert which shows that she died of Epilepsy in January 1875 - Albert was born 29 August 1874. They were living in Church Street, Deptford.

The Barnards lived in Pender Street & Berthon Street which were roads off of Church Street, so they could well have been neighbours.

I think I now need to research the Richer & Holland lines, do you?

Sue

I think so. ;)

Hey, I'm pretty sure I have to abandon my Cooper line and go for the Smith line. Not quite the same thing -- the only instance in my tree that I know of where my female ancestor managed to have my own direct ancestor before marrying. In all the other cases, mine was one of the ones born after marriage. So yippee, I have an out-of-wedlock Smith. It doesn't get much better!

But yours are not the first branches I've helped to lop off trees. I seem to be particularly good at proving that Barnards aren't Barnards, oddly.

Just think of all the new certificates you'll be needing!

Poke me on Sunday about the Ancestry stuff. It's been a looooong week.

Sue
well it certainly seems that your blood line just got ,,richer,,,
but you may have to go ,,dutch,,

haw, haw,
couldnt resist!!

poke,nudge
for evie

........ uh ......... "dutch"?

I get "richer", hahaha.

Dutch. Hm. Don't make me figure out jokes when I worked all night.

Oh. Duh. Never mind.

signed, Emily Litella

dutch=holland
dutch=share the expenses [english saying]

And Emily Litella means I just said something really stupid and you should pay me no heed. ;)

What's all this about violins on TV?!?

i dont even own a violin,let alone keep one on the tv.

Well, this is really to say another but very sincere thank you to Evie & Vivienne - you're complete stars!!!

Evie - poor you with a Smith to find, I wish I could help you!! They're not in West Sussex by any chance are they?

Vivienne - very good but I'm not Richer, I'm a lot poorer with all of these certificates I've been buying!!!

Thanks so much ladies, Sue xx

OMG - Evie/Vivienne are you still there? I feel like crying or throwing something!!!

I thought ok, now I know what I'm doing I'll investigate the Hollands & the Richers but ..............its not as easy as that!! Is it ever?

1851 Census
Albert Richer age 8 living with his brothers & widowed Mother, Elizabeth Richer in Rotherhithe.
I cannot find the family in 1841 or 1861!!!

1861 Census
Eliza Holland age 20 is living with her sister, Elizabeth, brother, George, and mother Elizabeth who is a Mariners Wife (no husband at home) in Greenwich
I cannot find the family in 1841 or 1851!!!

Neither have fathers present in the census!!!

Would you mind looking on Ancestry for me please? I bet The Genealogist has transcribed the surnames incorrectly!!

Trust me, you don't want me. I didn't sleep last night. All censuses look alike to me right now. One Albert would be just as good as another. I could weave you fantastical tales ... if I managed not to flop face down on the keyboard first.

Mañana!

Poor you Evie - have you been working?

I'm going to make a cup of tea & then go to bed, I'm shattered as well - tomorrow is another day & with fresh eyes I may find them.

Night night x

elizabeth is a widow


1861 England Census
about Albert Richer
Name: Albert Richer
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Rotherhithe, Surrey, England

Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View Image

Registration district: Rotherhithe
Sub registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 128
Household Members:
Name Age
Elizabeth Richer 64
William Richer 25
Albert Richer 18<<<hair dresser and perfumer

next household been chucked in with the richers by transcriber
John Strant
Margaret Kent 45
Charles Roberts 23
John Harris 16
Fredk R Ballen 15
Harry Knight 15

81 paradise street
red lion

william senior is a publican
no address on page


1841 England Census
about Elizabeth Richer
Name: Elizabeth Richer
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1801
Gender: Female

Civil Parish: Rotherhithe
Hundred: Brixton (Eastern Division)
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

View Image

Registration district: Rotherhithe
Sub registration district: Rotherhithe
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Richer 30
Elizabeth Richer 40
William Richer 5
Francis Richer 3
Charles Richer 2
Jas McLachlin 14
Hugh Forton

the genealogist is rubbish isnt it?
i was there before i was taught better!!

Vivienne - thank you!! Just got back from making my cuppa & you were there with 2 census for me ......

Fancy Albert being a hairdresser & perfumer :-)

Now I know his father was William - thats great, thank you.

Yeah, Genealogist is rubbish, I spend so much time correcting their errors!! I'm going to change when my subscription is up but thats not until the end of the year. Thats the trouble, its the day after Boxing Day & I'm always so busy with Christmas, its easier just to let it renew. Lazy I know but I will definately change this year!!

if you have credits on it when you go to stop your sub make sure you use them up
they wipe them off!!
i had 200 on there when i stopped and they did not reimburse me

cant see elizabeth holland 1811 yarmouth norfolk with the kids on 51
did note that george holland 1848 was born liverpool.
or 41 without them three from 1861 census
but will look tommorow,unless one of you 2 come up with them
bet evie gets them!!
but with daddy being a sailor its harder to find dad with them
they only seem to be back long enough to make more kids and then scarper back to sea!!

Do you think that the birth for Eliza Holland is the one in Dec Q 1840 in St Pancras - Eliza Ellen Holland? There is definately no Eliza Allen Hollands.

There is also a death of Elizabeth Eleanor Holland in Greenwich
in March Q 1865 - maybe that's Eliza's Mum?

I wish I could find them in 1851!!!!

I won't have any credits left Vivienne cos I've got an all inclusive subscription & you don't need credits, thankfully!!!

you can send for it using her mothers name as a checking ref
then if its wrong you only lose £3 i think it is
easy to get ellen and allen wrong with the fancy writing of the day.
but i thought somers town was more eastend
my geog is c**p though,i have to google most things.
i searched again today for 1851/41
nothing ,zilch,zero.
have you tried lancashirebmd for george holland liverpool1848?
they sometimes have the parents names on them.
and i also could not find elizabeth 1811 after 1861

I've never heard of Somers Town & I was born in South East London!!! But I will look it up now.

Yeah, think I will send for birth cert & say only if Mother is Elizabeth but first I'll look at lancashirebmd for George, I didn't know it even existed!!!

Thanks for looking for them again today - frustrating isn't it?

I think Elizabeth died in Greenwich area in 1865

blast my cockney grandma
for some reason i hear her talking of somers town in connection to canningtowm/silvertown ,where she was born
just googled it and yep,it st pancras, camden town
and i lived in and around archway/holloway for 20 years!!
i dont recall ever seeing it or going there!!