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Cynthia

1861 Continued....

1861 England Census
about Sarah Payne
Name: Sarah Payne
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Granddaughter
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Chipping Wycombe
Ecclesiastical parish: Oxford
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Wycombe
Sub registration district: High Wycombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Payne 65
Richard Payne 35
Maria Payne 19
Sarah Payne 26
Rosa Payne 3
Sarah Payne 2
William Gardner 19

1861 England Census
about William Gardner
Name: William Gardner
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Mother's Name: Maria
Gender: Male
Where born: Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, England

Civil Parish: Chipping Wycombe
Ecclesiastical parish: Oxford
County/Island: Buckinghamshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Wycombe
Sub registration district: High Wycombe
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Maria Payne 65
Richard Payne 35
Maria Payne 19
Sarah Payne 26
Rosa Payne 3
Sarah Payne 2
William Gardner 19

Maria is a Widow and a Carrier
Richard and Maria also Carrier's
William is not a son he is a Servant who is a Carter,i presume for the family business.

Address Church Square Antelope

Poss death for Richard

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
about Richard Payne
Name: Richard Payne
Year of Registration: 1864
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Wycombe
County: Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 286 (click to see others on page)

Hi Michelle,I am back once again,
Could you see if you could find a Irene or Reene Thatcher
born c 1930 /35 in London to a Lillian Thatcher
Havn`t got a lot on her ,only that she had a brother George he died in Australia,believe she went to the channell isles to live
thanks once again Margaret

Hi Michelle

You were researching a Tom Barge for me and we had to get a birth certificate of one of his children to progress further.


Tom was born c1856 in Yeovil Somerset. He was a Leather Dresser/Grinder. I would like to trace his family back. I have him married to an Annie in 1901 but the birth certificate of son Sidney Pitcher born 22/06/1883 has his mother as Elizabeth (looks like maiden name could be Francis). I have also found a marriage of a Tom Barge to Annie Redman in March 1901. Could this be his second marriage? If so what happened to Elizabeth?

Many Thanks

Gary

Hi Michelle, thank you so much for all that info - more than I could have hoped for. You're so thorough! Very, very, grateful. Kind regards. Cynthia

Margaret

Hi i won't be able to help with where Lilian went but can tell you the following:

Her maiden name was Sadler and here is her marriage record

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Lilian V Sadler
Name: Lilian V Sadler
Year of Registration: 1924
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Spouse's Surname: Thatcher
District: Shoreditch
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 135 (click to see others on page)

Lilian V Sadler 1924 Thatcher Shoreditch London, Middlesex

George Y R Thatcher 1924 Sadler Shoreditch London, Middlesex


Looks like George was 1st born

England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
about George C Thatcher
Name: George C Thatcher
Mother's Maiden Surname: Sadler
Date of Registration: Jul Aug Sep 1924
Registration district: Holborn
Registration county: London
Volume Number: 1b
Page Number: 961 (click to see others on page)

Possible siblings..

England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
about Charles H Thatcher
Name: Charles H Thatcher
Mother's Maiden Surname: Sadler
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1926
Registration district: Shoreditch
Registration county: London
Volume Number: 1c
Page Number: 119 (click to see others on page

I will p'm you the other 3 possible siblings as they may still be living?

Margaret

Poss birth of Lilian...you really need to obtain the marriage cert to George to see her age at marriage to know if this is correct or not?
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Lilian Violet Sadler
Name: Lilian Violet Sadler
Year of Registration: 1904
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Mile End Old Town
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 490 (click to see others on page)

This is only a poss...please check.

Hi Michelle,thanks so much for finding them
They are my stepsisters
one of them lives close by and we are still in touch
I have never heard ofVera ,wonder if she is still alive ,
I am trying to find out why my mother gave them up when they were so little
Mum remarried,would love to know what happened to them and why she gve them up
Maggie

Gary

Not often i say this but I am scratching my head a bit with yours!!

Could you tell me all the details from the birth cert...address,how both parents names were written and any other details please.I think the prob with this 1 is like i mentioned before the 2 Tom Barge's born around same time and place.More details would help from the cert....i hope!

Michelle

Hi Michelle,sorry to trouble you once again ,
I have been going through my research,could you possibly look and see if you can find anything on a Emma Snelling married to John Anderson
c 1850/60
Anything on them would be great
margaret

Hi Michelle

Here are the full Birth Certificate details for Sidney Thomas Barge.

Registration District St Saviour Surrey
1883 Birth in the Sub-district of St Peter, Walworth

The hand writing on the certificate is very ornate and difficult to make out. The birth was 22nd June 1883 and registered on 2nd August 1883. The address is 25 ....... Street, Walworth. The street name begins with 'F' and ends in 't' and could be 'Flint' or 'First'. Father is Thomas Barge, Leather Dresser and mother is Elizabeth Barge formerly Francis (or at least that's what it looks like to me).

I guess I could order a birth certificate of another of the children if needed.

Regards

Gary

Hi Michelle
Did you have any luck with Albert William Woods? I've managed to track down a letter my mother recieved, not sure if any of the information will help at all, but you never no.
The letter is from: The Warwickshire Constabulary, History Society, and goes on to say
'Old personnel records have been destroyed apart from some old cards relating to some Wartime Reservists and Special Constables.
Records state that he was enrolled on 8 July 1940 in the Solihull Division and was stationed at Knowle. His PWR number was 196R. The date of his death is given as 6 September 1941.
On the back of the card are the following remarks:
Whereabouts of widow not known.
Daughter June, boarded out with Mrs A Potter.
441 Lugtrout Lane, Solihull.
Son Derek has been legally adopted.
The only other comment states he resigned from the police possibly on 23.3.41. They go on to say that they have no further details

Kind regards

Wendy

Gary W

Where did they marry?Also what was the birthplaces for the couple?Was it Liverpool?

Michelle

Margaret

You didn't mention where they were from?I looked for marriage around 1872 and wondered if this was them?Mistranscription of Anderson?

Name Year of Registration Spouse's Surname District County View Image Order Record
View Record
John William Alderson 1872 St Saviour Southwark London, Surrey

Emma Snelling 1872 St Saviour Southwark London, Surrey

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Emma Snelling
Name: Emma Snelling
Year of Registration: 1872
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: St Saviour Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 12 (click to see others on page)

Could you let me know their birthplaces cos of the wide birthyear-1850-60 i really need a little more to work with.

Gary

This has to be your Thomas Barge...listed below is Sidney all details match the birth cert except mother's 1st name.I am wondering whether her middle name was Annie which she went by on census records but her 1st name was Elizabeth??The reg district they were living in matches the marriage record i found for Sidney

1901 England Census
about Sidney Barge
Name: Sidney Barge
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Walworth

Civil Parish: Bermondsey
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub registration district: Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 271
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Barge 42
Annie Barge 39
Sidney Barge 18
Lizzie Barge 19
Ellen Barge 15
Mary Barge 13
Robert Matthews 18


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Sidney Thomas Barge
Name: Sidney Thomas Barge
Year of Registration: 1905
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: St Olave Bermondsey (1902-1913)
County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 317 (click to see others on page)

Occupation of Thomas on the 1901 listed as Leather Dresser.So everything matches.The 1881 i found as a poss for Thomas list him as married to Annie.

1881 England Census
about Thomas Barge
Name: Thomas Barge
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie
Gender: Male
Where born: Yeovil, Somerset, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 10 Union St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Leather Grinder (Currier)

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Barge 24
Annie Barge 25

The only 2 problems we have is the 2 Annies...or maybe same person??1881 has her listed as 1856 birthyear and the 1901 as 1862 birthyear.Both Dorset though and if Thomas was living in London seems unusual that he would re-marry someone from Dorset,,,unless she was living in the London area.

Dawn

Can you pm me with your birthdate and place please and mother's maiden name.
Also any details you have on your father to refresh my memory of your lookup request....i do so many hard to remember all the details.

Thanks

Michelle

Wendy

No i haven't had any luck.

I suggest you put a request on the Records Office Board for help with this 1.I generally do not help with lookups after 1920 as my thread is mainly to help with brick walls and lost people on the 1841-1901 census records.

I wish you the best of luck.

Michelle

Hi Michelle

Many thanks for the Tom Barge info. I had come to the same conclusion that Annie Elizabeth Barge or Elizabeth Annie Barge were one and the same person.

Regards

Gary

Hi Michelle,you have found what looks like the right Emma Snelling
I have a little info on John ,he was born 1819 died 1875
Emma was younger looks like she was born in 1837 both in London
Didn`t have their marriage and am trying to find when Emma died
thanks a lot Michelle
Margaret

Hi Michelle,

Can you please help with the following. Charles Stamp born the illegitmate son of Hannah Stamp & George Cane in Bramley, Hampshire on about 11/03/1842.

Where was he on the 1851 census? With his father in Bramley or his mother who was now married to William James Irvine and possibly living in Poplar.

Thanks

Chris Barrett

Hi there Michele

Hope you can help clear some doubts. The info below is all I have and may not be accurate

My name is Derek Crabtree and looking for relatives before 1820.
Jonathan Crabtree born 1820 in Hebdon Bridge, Yorkshire.
Apparent two wives; Mary Allison 1831 And Jane Ellison 1845 I think both were born in Bishop Aukland, Durham.
Between them they had about 10 Children.
As far as I am aware Jonathans farther was also a Jonathan and possible wife Betty.

His Father was born about 1808 and married around 1782ish in maybe Halifax area.

Its becoming a nightmare trying to verify anyone as there are so many Jonathans in the yorks, lancs areas.

Please request to view my tree if you need something more to work with.

DGCDALTON

Hope you can help

Derek G Crabtree

[email protected]