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Thanks for that.

this may be the Vera M Johnson you are trying to find found through
elec roll.

this family at 82 Vestry Road, Camberwell

Thomas A G Johnson
Lilian M Johnson
Vera M Johnson
from 1946 to 1948 all there
1949 Thomas AG Johnson not there -- he dies 1978 70y in Bromley DoB 18 2 1908
Lilian and Vera are there together 1949 to 1958 then Lilian M Johnson
on her own to at least 1964 -- they are sharing the house with a Herbert and Queenie M Birch -- Queenie is easier to find on Elec. roll

1959 Vera M Johnson is sharing with John J O'Keefe

Thomas A[Alfred] G Johnson seems to be a bit of a ladies man - 3 marriages

1st Nellie Beasley - Brentford Sep Q 1921 3a 481
2nd Helen M D Rosborough - Hendon Jun Q 1933 3a 1162
3rd Rose F Stone - Camberwell Dec Q 1937 1d 1337

not married to a Lilian

don't know if this will help you :-) :-)

Mavis ;-)

think this is the family 1911


Name:
Queenie Johnson

Age in 1911:
9

Estimated birth year:
abt 1902

Relation to Head:
Daughter

Gender:
Female

Birth Place:
CAMBERWELL, London, England

Civil Parish:
Camberwell

County/Island:
London

Country:
England

Street address:
54 Vestry Rd, Camberwell S E -- Vestry road again - same as Elec roll

Occupation:
SCHOOL

Registration district:
Camberwell

Registration District Number:
27

Sub-registration district:
Camberwell North

ED, institution, or vessel:
27

Piece:
2511

Household Members:

Thomas Johnson 40
Nelly Johnson 39
Queenie Johnson 9
Nelly Johnson 6
Vera Johnson 5
Thomas Johnson 3

father and son may be Thomas Alfred George Johnson

Mavis

Thanks Mavis. This could be the same Vera M Johnson who lived at 27 Philip Road Peckham Rye Camberwell from 1960 to at least 1965 when we can't see the record on line. She was at that address with John J O'Keefe and as you know I am trying to find a genetic connection between these mysterious occupants of my uncles house.
So maybe she was a local girl who just moved in with JJ O'Keefe when the other people had died and left him as the sole occupant.
Any help greatefully received.

J :-(

I believe the 1st marriage of Thomas A G Johnson is Thomas snr
Thomas jnr wouldn't have been old enough to marry then .


the Vera M Johnson could have been the sister so may give you an Idea how old John J O'Keefe was perhaps

Mavis

Thanks again. Lots to follow up.

I'm so confused about this last input!

is the Lilian M Johnson in the household with Vera M Johnson considered to be related to Lilian M Bass?

the problem I'm having is that 'our' Vera M Johnson was in the household with Henry F Bass and John J O'Keefe in 1957

and the Vera M Johnson whom Mavis has offered was living with Lilian M Johnson 1949 to 1958 ... and Lilian M lived there until 1964 ...


... just to refresh my memory again :-)

1947 Henry F Bass and Lilian M Bass
1955-56 Henry F Bass, Lilian M Bass and John J O'Keefe
1957 Henry F Bass, Vera M Johnson and John J O'Keefe
1959 Henry F Bass, Vera M Johnson and John J O'Keefe
1961-62 John J O'Keefe and Vera M Johnson

there is just too much overlap to be related I think


Mavis's Vera in 1911, in readable form :-)

Name: Vera Johnson
Age in 1911: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1906
Relation to Head: Daughter
Birth Place: CAMBERWELL, London, England

there is actually no matching birth ... Vera Margaret in Camberwell in 1908 would have been aged 2, not 5

these two ...

Births Mar 1906
Johnson Vera Mary Lewisham 1d 1177
Johnson Vera Maude Lambeth 1d 447

in any case this would be that Lilian

Births Mar 1912
Johnson Lilian M Northcroft Camberwell 1d 1565

(Thomas Johnson + Nelly Northcroft marriage)


but I just don't think these are the people we are looking for


PS ... I am not saying any of the names I have thrown into the mix are 'right', following a trail is what you have to do to rule out in any case!

too many unknowns still no matter how we slice it :-)

Thanks ladies. The coincidence of a Lilian M in the Johnson household has thrown us I think. Bear in mind that Hen Fred Bass had Mary LIlian or LIlian Mary with him at 27 Philip Road since 1924 - right through with the exception of 1932 - 1935 when we assume his legal wife reappeared - albeit reversing her christian names from Mary Ann Bass to Ann Mary Bass. According to the electoral register the two ladies were never at the address at the same time.
So, the Lilian M Johnson can't have been in two places at once?
If we knew where Vera M Johnson and John J O'Keefe went to in the years following 1965 (the on line cut off date) I could get an idea of where they died and get certs.
I have done tree searches for LM Foster 1895, LM Gates 1892 and LM Jackson 1895 and so far only a couple of answers.

I have just taken the plunge and ordered another death cert for the JJO'K who died in Brent in 1991 aged 64. If this does not lead me anywhere I promise you all I shall give up entirely. Why oh why do we do this?

was there any occupation given for JJO'K when he reported the death
of HFB ??

The Vera M[Maude} Johnson died in Worthing Sx. aged 91y - 1997
D of B 6th Feb 1906.

Mavis :-)

No Mavis - just described himself as "Nephew". He had lived there from 1955 with Hen Fred Bass and Lilian M "Bass". (They had been there since 1924)
Nowhere on the electoral register did we see Vera's second christian name so it may not have been Maude. I am more interested in John J O'Keefe and trying to find a family connection.

I have recently found out from the 1939 census that Lilian M Bass was actually LIlian M Wass and used Bass even though not married to Henry Frederick. The grandaughter of Lilian M Wass's sister is now in touch and hopefully will provide some answers - but probably not all.
Happy New Year.
Jennifer :-)