General Chat

I don't know if it has occured to anyone but the people who feel uncomfortable when talking about religion are probably not on this thread anyway:))

lol good point!

Hi Donna, we are not allowing offence on here, so no you haven't offended anyone. This has been a very good open discussion with lots of differing views expressed. I was a hypocrite when I first got married. By that time I had given up going to church but got married in the parish high church because it was the thing to do. The words that were said didn't really mean much to me. When I married for the second time I married in an SNU church & the words of the ceremony are so special & although my husband has gone before me, we will celebrate our silver & golden wedding anniversaries, whether I am still here or with him on the other side. He is & always will be my husband Vivienne

Oh Vivienne, that sounds so special. I am God Mother to my sister (big age gap due to second marriage), i agreed to be more of a gardian rather than 'godmother'. I was baptised RC and i can honestly say, i know little about the faith. Donna

Couldnt agree more Jean and not an easy subject....very good thread Paul. Donna

Vivien, I too had a huge 'white wedding' the first time I even had a 'nuptial mass', my marriage dident last , he was not my soul mate, and I have to say the ceremony dident mean much to me and at that time I was a big church goer. my now husband is my soul mate, we were married in a registry office, but I can honestly say that I meant every vow,

Can I just say I have found this a really good thread, and have been reading it on and off most of the day;; No I do not feel uncomfartable talking about religion as long as it is discussed well. which this one has. As a child I used to go to C/E church 10am, leave there go to Catholic church with my friend then on afternoon Salvation Army with another friend, then sunday night to the Kingdom Hall with my grandad who was a Jehovas Wittness. All through my life I have only gone to a church as and when, Until 25yrs ago when Hubby and I wanted to get married,no one would marry us only the Baptist as we were both divorced, yet we were both the innocent parties in our marriage break ups. So after attending for nearly yr decided that I really wanted to go back to C/E church, but for no special reason; Started to go regular with my daughters and loved it, one daughter went on to be Altar girl, but when it came to her moving up school she decided to go to Catholic school as she wanted to go somewhere more stricter, anyway I am rambling a bit here so, what I want to say is even though been to all these then main things I have grown up with is 1) Be nice do unto others as you would onto yourself,be nice to each other life is to short not to. 2) We all basically want to believe in something bigger than us, most religion is to a God how do we know its not the same god?. Live and let live is my motto, and try not to judge others none of us knows what is round the next corner,, And as for Spiritulists would love to go but never got the nerve up to do so, after uncle told me at 15 you have the gift,sared the daylights out of me then, dont know about now !! Babs

I was always told in the Army that the two topics you never discuss for fear of an argument were Politics and Religion. My thoughts on the matter are if you belive good for you , if you do'nt belive good for you. All I know is that having seen what humans can do to each other over religion then the weapon was mightier than the Church.

What a good thread! Thanks, Paul. I only get uncomfortable talking about religion when someone is trying to ram their views down my throat. After all, no-one has conclusive proof of what is 'right' or 'wrong' so why get in a tizzy about anything? Seems to me that, apart from extremists, everyone looks to their religion, even if they consider themselves as atheist or agnostic, for the same things - a reason for being and guidelines for how to live a 'good' life. I don't see anything to argue about there.

Sometimes if I feel the need I go to 'the Stuppa' (buddhist temple) I find it relaxing and calming, I find the buddhist faith makes sense , to me, it seems to mirror my beliefs. I have so many thoughts about religion,faith I dont think I can honestly say Im this or Im that.

I do not accept things easily and invariably question everything. If I can poke holes in a theory I will - and it deserves to be knocked down if it cannot stand questioning. I would not say that I want to believe in anything particular. I was quite happy when I did not. I do not accept any sectarian religion and am still bit hazy about 'God'. What does amaze me is a person who pays lip-service to a religious group but who does not believe in the basic principles of their own belief system. They have the makings of first-class politicians. I know so-called Christians who do not believe in such an entity as a soul let alone a ghost.. Also, I have little respect for those who belittle and denounce out of hand concepts put forward by others without having done any research or investigationof their own. Now that is real bigotry! Best not enter into dialogue with a closed mind. I would suggest that the authors of the New Testament (particularly St Paul) fitted up Jesus to conform to the prophecies of the Old Testament. Possibly, of the 'big four' only Luke was independent, the other books being composed from many sources. The Acts and most of the other gospels emanated from St Paul or his acolytes. If any one is interested in reading what went on in the world at the time of Jesus, try Seneca, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger. Other writers, although not historians as such, were Plutarch and Pliny the Elder (he was a naturalist whereas his son was interested in politics and history). Naturally, these wrote from the Roman angle. Seneca is good as he was contemporary and anti-Nero (the emperor from AD38) and explained the political reasons (to divert popular anger away from Nero) behind the persecution of the tiny Christian Sect, which got Nero temporarily off the hook after the burning of Rome - and pleased the Jews. It also martyred the Christians and gave their cause an enormous boost. Christianity, in its present form, was not founded by Jesus (who is well-documented other than in the Scriptures) but by his followers - and probably would have fizzled out but for one remarkable man who took it over some 20-30 years after The Crucifixion. Jesus was a mystic (there were a lot of them about at the time) and more of a political activist with an ideal (as was Marx) and a member of a movement called 'The Way'. He was also anti-Roman, the governing body. It is probable that he travelled armed, as did most males at the time. He and his followers were a thorn in the flesh of the Roman Administration who kept tabs on him and documented his activities. He had several brothers and possibly sisters. The remarkable man referred to above was a Jew born in Eastern Turkey (Tarsus, according to St Luke) by the name of Saul. He had Roman citizenship, was a tent-maker and supplier to the Roman army so was well-heeled and much travelled with many social and business contacts in the Mediterranean world. In the way of the upwardly-mobile he was a great follower of the temptations of the flesh and enthusiastically joined in baiting helpless minorities (in that day and age being the Christians), as encouraged by Nero the Emperor. Saul made many journeys in pursuit of business and social matters and, when on the road to Damascus, it would appear that he suffered a minor stroke which, upon recovery from, he concluded was a warning shot from God over his sins of the past, in particular his attitude towards Christians. So he became a typical re-actionary, changing his name to Paul and going to extremes to reverse his previous life-style, condemning all pleasures of the flesh and whole-heartedly supporting Christians and becoming self-appointed Director and Administrator of their Church, a post he filled admirably and his directives fill much of the New Testament. Had it not been for Paul, we may today have been worshipping Mithras who was gaining in popularity at the time. Mithraic altars have been found in Britain. Mahomet, who founded Islam, was born in Mecca in AD570. He was of Semitic stock, probably from Christian Arab tribes. Therefore, Judaism (a belief in one God), Christianity and Islam arose from a common source with an affinity with the Old Testament. Naturally, after he started preaching 'There is but one God' (Allah – from Ilãh, Arabic for ‘The God’) his new creed was mocked by the establishment- but his followers eventually got it off the ground. Muslims regard Jesus as an important prophet and also recognise Mary as a major figure in the scriptures. All three major religions share a history and owe much to each other. Sadly, the adherents of each (not to mention factions within each) will not give one another an inch of leeway and contain in their ranks hosts of bigots who are prepared to coerce, maim and kill in the name of what they perceive to be their true God.

I have not been on the PC since during last night, so I haven't been able to follow this thread until now. I have just read all replies and have appreciated the comments, most of which were very valid. However, I must object to those who state categorically that you can be either Christian or Spiritualist but not both as the two don't go hand in hand. I find it very sad that people can spout like this when they obviously know nowt about nowt to do with Spiritualism. I am a Christian Spiritualist and I find it slanderous to hear otherwise. My marriage certificate states that I was married in a Christian Church. This being a legal document would not have this written if it were not legally true. The Christian Spiritualist Church believes in Jesus Christ and his teachings, the SNU Church calls him Jesus the Nazarene, both are correct as Jesus was a Nazarene. All Christian Churches teach that on the third day Christ rose and appeared to his disciples. It was his Spirit they saw - he didn't suddenly come alive again!! I would like to bet that each and every one of us hopes to get to Heaven when we pass over. What is Heaven but the Spirit World. And if Spirit doesn't exist, then neither do we because your spirit is your personality/your soul. I would never condemn any other religion for their beliefs, nor would I ever say they were pretending to be something they were not. Basically I would not talk out of my bum but would spend many many years investigating a religion from the inside first before saying anything. Something which has very obviously not been done by some posters here. Dianne xx

Modern scholarship puts the possible date for compilation of St John's Gospel at between 90 and 110AD and it was possibly written in Ephesus. The discourses are long and differ markedly from the other 3 books. It terminates abruptly at chapter 16.8 and continues thereafter as a sort of addendum. The original scriptures were written in a debased archaic language, mostly on papyrus, and lost much of the original meaning when translated into Greek, Latin and later into English. Most early manuscripts were lost in the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in AD70 and it was only by a prodigious stroke of luck in discovering the Dead Sea Scrolls that modern researchers have been able to gain such insight into the times. Naturally, today’s church dignitaries are not keen on the Dead Sea Scrolls being made generally available as they contain so much contradictory material. The division of the text of the Bible into numbered verses, as in the Authorised Version, has no authority behind it and was the invention of a Frenchman Robert Etienne in 1551.

Diane thanks for the info', good to see a Christian Spiritualist on here.

To those who believe that spiritualism and christianity can not be the same. Have you been to a spiritual church? We accept all other faiths in our church and it dose not need to be a grand building to pray. p.s. Who's to say which is the right faith to follow we may be all wrong. Also my one question i would ask is name me a relegion which as NOT caused a war or burn't people at the stake

Morning all, its nice to see this thread still going. I hope I dident give the impression that I think'Spiritualists' are not 'christians' , my point was one of personal experience, I was very angry when told that I cant be a 'christian' and believe in 'spiritualism'. I have been to a spiritualist church on many occasions and found it to be very welcoming, the atmosphere was light and loving, To me it was the most christian of places Ive been to.

Like Len, I always question everything, I'm not one to follow the crowd if I think the crowd's going the wrong way ! But, where my beliefs are concerned, I have a total and unquestioning faith in God and his Son. I don't claim to understand all that is in the Bible but I do believe it. I have to disagree with Dianne's point about Jesus not physically rising from the dead. I believe that he did - in fact Mary Magdalen mistook him for the gardener so he must have appeared in an earthly form.

Vivienne, I have only just picked this up again. I wanted to add. You said Christians believe in Eternal Rest. I was always taught to believe in Eternal life (John 3 v16). Ann Glos

Jayvee Firstly yes spirits do appear as earthly forms (I've only seen three so far but they appeared as human forms). I have only ever seen these orbs on photos and things like Most Haunted. Secondly if Jesus came alive again, then surely his story would continue and a second death be recorded in the Bible. Could you tell me please the Chapter and Verse where this occurred? I would like to look it up. Dianne xx p.s. - sorry I have posted in John's name without realising.

Dianne - Jesus didn't die a second time, he ascended into heaven, forty days after his resurrection, to be with his Father. This is recorded in the Bible - Acts ch. 1 v 9 -11.