General Chat

Len You have obviously done a lot of research, however I must disagree with you on some points. You say Luke was the only independent gospel writer, but Luke himself says he he obtained his information from eyewitnesses, Luke 1:2. “just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us,” Matthew, aka Levi, and John were both independent eyewitnesses and apostles of Jesus. John himself says he was one of the eyewitnesses, having “seen, heard and handled., -------- 1Jo 1:1 ¶ That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 1Jo 1:2 (For the life was revealed, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show to you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us;) 1Jo 1:3 That which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. You say that Jesus was anti Roman. This is not true, as when he was asked by the rulers if they should pay taxes to the Romans, he shewed them a coin and asked whose image was on it, when they said “Caesars” he replied, “Then render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and to God that which is God’s.” Paul followed this theme by saying that Christians should pray for Caesar. God Bless, David

Hi Jacquie Pop back and have a look at Linen Lady's thread on page 3. The first principle of spiritualism is the Fatherhood of God. But what is God? People all have different concepts of Him or it. Some think of God as being like an old man with a long beard siting on a throne. That is good as they can create a visual image in their mind when thinking of God or praying. I personally think of God as being the force of good within all of us, and I think of the devil as being the force of evil within us, rather than this thing with a pitchfork and horns. Everybody has a bit of both good and bad in them. I also wonder sometimes if perhaps all religions are preaching of/praying to the same ultimate being. Maybe the word God is just a derivation of language. Add a letter to God and you get Good, take a letter away from Devil and you get evil. Does God/Allah/Buddha/Krishna etc all mean the same thing in the same way as Peter/Pierre/Pedro or John/Ian/Jan/Johann/Jack?? I have often wondered about that. I don't think there is any right or wrong way to think of God. But I truly believe that God exists in whichever form he may take. Dianne xx

Jacquie, I believe in Spirits, yet I don't believe in God. The two can, but don't have to go together.

Dianne, thanks for that, very imformative. I'd only ever heard a little about ectoplasm, but didn't know what it really was. At work, (Cats Protection) I'm sure a couple of time, i've seen spirit cats in the corner of my eye. ---- Something a bit different now; In a way I think the whole 'belief' system is related to the 'Empty Forest Theory'. A huge forest, which no living person has set foot in the middle of. A huge tree, one of the biggest topples over, but no one heard it, so does the sound exist? Many things which haven't been witnessed are still believed to be true. Perhaps people need to take this into account when they think about other people's beliefs.

How can anyone believe in Spirits/Souls yet not God, don't the two go hand in hand? I don't mean believing in the Bible chapter and verse burt surely they must believe in a God if they can believe in Ghosts. Jacquie

Paul What you saw is perfectly normal, perfectly natural and a very regular occurrence. My mother saw my rabbit (which I had when I was little) jump off her bed. She was doing her hair at the time and saw it in the mirror behind her. There are many ways in which spirit can appear, as I said they can be as human as they were in life, or they can appear looking something akin to a column of steam, or as some see them as orbs. It depends on how much energy they can take from the living. You may have heard of something called ectoplasm. This is something not usually seen by the naked eye, but it can be photographed under infra red light. This is the energy required by a spirit in order to manifest itself, and to what degree it can manifest (i.e. orb, steamlike, or solid) depends on how much energy the spirit person has available to it. Hope this makes sense!! People think that ectoplasm is taken only during sittings or psychic circles, but it is something which is going on all the time and it is happening to all of us, although we don't notice it happening. Nobody knows whether or not they have seen a spirit unless they see the spirit of someone they know. You knew your cat well and so were able to recognise it. You may well have seen many cats/dogs/other animals/humans, but not realised you were seeing a spirit as you didn't know them in this life. Once people see something for themselves, that is then their proof. Until then it is only natural they are not going to believe other people. However they shouldn't condemn what others know to be true, especially when there is so much evidence to support the theory. For example I have never seen the Eiffel Tower with my own eyes so I could deny its existence. But I can't deny it as there is so much documentary evidence that it does exist, and so many people have seen it that I have no choice but to believe its existence. So many people have documentary evidence that spirit exists but until non believers witness for themselves they are not going to believe. Scepticism is good. It means that we don't blindly follow but will look for proof. The proof is there - seek and ye shall find. I hope I have explained this in an understandable way. Dianne xx

now this really may sound like ive lost it, but a few years afetr my dog died we got two cats! The cats are so different but both of them act differenlty but act in ways my dog did. Liek the girl cat is very 'stuck up' and loving when she wants something. But the boy cat will wake me up the same way as my dog used to, well pat on my hands the same way and dribbles when i stroke him-the same way. I might sound stupid but i think theres a bit of my dog in both of them...hich im sure shes not happy about as she hated cats! lol xx

One cat, Harry (Was blind bless him) I saw walking up the corridor. My other cat, Rocco, used to walk with his claws sticking out (Click, click, click sound in the corridor) I heard this a week after he died, so did my mum, and my other cat looked a bit scared!

paul, i had the exact same thing when my dog died. She lived at my nans when we moved into the flat and about 2 weeks after she died, i pulled up outside my nans and saw her laying in the porch where she always used to. Then i got out the car and she was gone...xxx

Diane, I believe you about your grandfather! People see all kinds of things with spirits. I for one (Don't laugh) saw my cat, a week after he died, walking up the corridor towards me. People will laugh, but I know what I saw. People will laugh at anything which isn't of a 'typical' spirit!

That's right Jayvee, as I said earlier they can appear in human form. All those I have seen were in human form - and as solid looking as you like. They tend to appear as you would remember them. Maybe that's why I saw my grandad in his candy stripe pyjamas (don't laugh, I know it sounds daft, but it is true). I've heard it said that fifty per cent of the people you pass in the high street could be dead - who knows. We don't exactly walk up to people and poke them to see if our finger goes straight through do we. If we did I bet we'd be in for some shocks LOL Dianne xx

You're welcome Dianne I have to admit I'm not sure how a spirit person differs from a physical person but, as the Bible records several people as having seen Jesus after his resurrection, then personally I believe that he was in human form. Jay

Thanks Jayvee, appreciate that. So no second death then prior to ascending to Heaven, ergo it must have been his spirit person appearing to the disciples. Dianne xx

Dianne - Jesus didn't die a second time, he ascended into heaven, forty days after his resurrection, to be with his Father. This is recorded in the Bible - Acts ch. 1 v 9 -11.

Jayvee Firstly yes spirits do appear as earthly forms (I've only seen three so far but they appeared as human forms). I have only ever seen these orbs on photos and things like Most Haunted. Secondly if Jesus came alive again, then surely his story would continue and a second death be recorded in the Bible. Could you tell me please the Chapter and Verse where this occurred? I would like to look it up. Dianne xx p.s. - sorry I have posted in John's name without realising.

Vivienne, I have only just picked this up again. I wanted to add. You said Christians believe in Eternal Rest. I was always taught to believe in Eternal life (John 3 v16). Ann Glos

Like Len, I always question everything, I'm not one to follow the crowd if I think the crowd's going the wrong way ! But, where my beliefs are concerned, I have a total and unquestioning faith in God and his Son. I don't claim to understand all that is in the Bible but I do believe it. I have to disagree with Dianne's point about Jesus not physically rising from the dead. I believe that he did - in fact Mary Magdalen mistook him for the gardener so he must have appeared in an earthly form.

Morning all, its nice to see this thread still going. I hope I dident give the impression that I think'Spiritualists' are not 'christians' , my point was one of personal experience, I was very angry when told that I cant be a 'christian' and believe in 'spiritualism'. I have been to a spiritualist church on many occasions and found it to be very welcoming, the atmosphere was light and loving, To me it was the most christian of places Ive been to.

To those who believe that spiritualism and christianity can not be the same. Have you been to a spiritual church? We accept all other faiths in our church and it dose not need to be a grand building to pray. p.s. Who's to say which is the right faith to follow we may be all wrong. Also my one question i would ask is name me a relegion which as NOT caused a war or burn't people at the stake

Diane thanks for the info', good to see a Christian Spiritualist on here.