General Chat

Sharron it's so difficult for people who have not had to go through this to understand that the pain lasts forever. Thank goodness you and others can come on here and 'talk' to each other and no tells you to 'get over it'.

Sue x

The sad fact is that had me or my sister told anyone about the level of abuse we were suffering, we would not have been believed. TOG presented himself to the world as the perfect gentleman, husband, father and grandfather. I did once tell someone. Rob and I knew them and the parents knew them. After I told them, they kept in touch with the parents and would have nothing more to do with us.

Only in his last 18 or so months did the male parent not bother to hide his real character. I saw a hospital consultant in shock after experiencing it. It was liberating to me because finally, someone else saw what he was like. He still took in some of the neighbours but not all.

I'm sorry to say that they believe the worst of me still because I walked away from the parents in the end. Both parents told massive great lies about me. Am I bothered what they think? Nah. After the female parent died one neighbour said I should let bygones be bygones and go back and look after him because he was lonely without the female parent and quite poorly. Oh I knew it must have been hard for him. He'd been abusing and bullying her for years as I came to realise. There was no one to order about and critisise all the time. He gave my sister a hard time but didn't seem inclined to do too much in case he alienated her too. He did contact an advocacy service who tried to persuade me to reinstate contact and go and care for him. He played the poor, lonely widower and told them he had no idea why I was treating him so badly. He knew alright because we had had words before I walked and my sister told him several times but he refused to accept that he had done anything wrong. He told lies about me to his solicitor; my sister put the solicitor right. When my sister was up and helping to arrange the female parent funeral, someone from the funeral director visited the house. My sister paid for the family flowers for the coffin because he refused to. It turns out he had about £60.000 in the bank but he wouldn't waste £90 on flowers for his wife of 62 years. He even told the fd that she didn't like flowers - another lie. When my sister said that no way was the female parent going to her funeral without flowers, he started to order her to do as he said but she refused to let him speak. My sister told the funeral director that if they had any problems with him after the funeral to deal with her. She got a telephone call several days later because he had written several unfounded and malicious complaints about the funeral that had left them in shock. He slagged off the minister, the organist and he didn't like the way the female parent had been enbalmed. My sister and I both talked to them to ignore him totally. I also offered to write a letter explaining that we were both very happy with their whole package. He had even complained about the disabled access to their 'shop'. As there is no access problem at all, we think he was moaning about the pavement by the parking bays that were nothing to do with the fd at all.

In his last weeks he was in a nursing home. One day at work my sister had a telephone call from the head person there. She wanted to advise that a case conference had been called because he had made serious allegations about one of the care staff, including that she had tried to poison him. This poor lass was probably going to lose her job. The manager asked if my sister thought that the cancer might have spread to his brain and caused the unreasonable behaviour. My sister had to say that this was his normal character. When the female parent was in hospital after her first stroke, he made serious allegations against the nursing staff who were pretty good. I found out what he had done and went to the Ward Sister and told her that if he took the legal action he intended to do, I would support the hospital against him. When he and the female parent spent a bit of time in residential to give me some respite, one of the carers told my sister that she had thought one day that he was going to attack her. Another collegue he started on tried to make light and excuse herself. His response was that she would leave the room when he gave her permission. I liken him to Hitler when you see him giving a speech and ranting away. Cousins who until they saw him in full flow thought he was nice were left reeling.

People don't want to hear because they can't cope with the truth or they simply won't believe such a situation could exist. Sadly until someone invents a truthometer to prove that we are not lying, others will choose to stick their head in the sand because to do otherwise is to go where they don't want to.

I don't have all the answers I'm afraid.

Just hold on to the fact that you are free of her and she can't affect your life again. I try to follow that path. Because of the parents I am the person I am now but because I've no longer got them in my life, I'm getting to be the person I want to be.

You take care.

xxJill

Just to make life a bit more interesting I also have a partner who has been very damaged by a narcissistic mother. I didn't like the woman from the beginning and have had very little to do with her in the many years we have been together.

It is only recently I have been able to get him to communicate the strange view of the world she has left him with.

Hard enough trying to sort myself out. I don;t mind helping him to attain some happiness but I really do need him to give me a bit of feedback.

One of my frequent phrases is" Please, I am not your bloody mother!"

What a lot of us truly ungrateful children there are. We should be so ashamed of ourselves,tee-hee.

Sue, that's such a heartrending thing to have heard from a Mother. There are so many women who would give everything to love and nurture that little boy and he is stuck with a mother who says such awful things, how sad for him. I hope Poppy and Nanny see him often and love him to bits.

Sharron, it's the anniversary of my Mother's death on Monday, 16 years.

If people talk of her they recall how welcome she made everyone with tea and home made cakes etc, and how lovely she was to everybody. Even my youngest brother says Well she did the best she could for us. Oh yes, but he was 5 years younger than me, what did he know of the stuff I had on my shoulders from my Mother when she was down, sad, tearful, wishing her first fiance hadn't died of tb because ' her life would have been so different if he had lived' and all the other stuff about her losing her mother when she was just 16 (the baby of the family) I would struggle to get to sleep and go downstairs for a drink only to see Mother crying as she ironed, and listened to the radio (no tv till I was 14) Dad worked shifts and so was often working till past 10pm. If he was home and it was light, he would be working out in the garden to grow veg and keep chickens etc so we had food, and probably to get out of her way while she nagged. She had few friends to call round or visit, we had no car so it was walk, bus or bike and there would be my mother sobbing as a song reminded her of her mother or her dead fiance.
My baby bro was asleep when I was shouldering all that, and at weekends he would be out playing while I had to help clean the house and prepare the lunch if mother was off shopping.

Later on my mother welcomed friends I worked with (one had no mother and she continued to visit my mother for years after I left home, as did another friend who fell out with me for a reason I never discovered but continued to call on my mother and take her to her house for tea.) She was all sweetness and light to others but I now think she was jealous of me being able to go on holiday abroad or travel about, my Dad said he had enough of abroad after his military service during the war etc so holidays locally in self catering places were all they could afford when we were young and as we left home, they would go to stay somewhere with my aunt and uncle.
The only thing I ever did right was produce a grandson for them to spoil, and even then they would go against me as I tried to bring him up alone, by undermining my 'rules' and disagreeing with things I said, like he had to eat his meal before he had sweets etc

I was always ticked off for doing anything that upset her, and that meant I shouldn't have gone off to work away one summer, or moved away from my home city.
Oh well all in the past now but doesn't it shape you.

Jillian, I am so glad you had loving in laws and hubby and you are coming into your own at last. Be proud of who you are and what you have done with your life, created a happy family who will not feel the way you feel, and will grieve for you when it's time because you were loved and loving and worth grieving for.

Lizxx

Uzzi, do hope your Mother won't decide to move to where you are, but that you can enjoy her visit, if it finally happens, and then pack her back home lol

Take care
Lizxx

Uzzi I was just thinking. Would you like me to post out to you our local property pages. You can let her think that you are moving here. Then she might move in expectation. You can 'change your mind' afterwards and even if she talks about moving again, she will have wasted a lot of months that you can have had peacefully over there.

Liz. I promised myself that if I ever had someone special and maybe kids, I would make sure that every day they knew how I felt about them. I do. Al(ison) is nearly 16 and And(rew) nearly 14. Every day we say "I love you". And at night too. I love Rob aswell, even more than I did when we got married 25 years ago this July. We've been together for over 27 years and still love each other. I know how lucky I am and I never take him or the kids for granted. My in-laws were just the best. On my first birthday after I was with Rob, Edna gave me a card a little embarrassed and said they hoped I didn't mind but it had 'daughter' on it. Aside from it being a beautiful card, it was how they felt about me. She and Reg were wonderful, wonderful people and you would never find one single person who had a bad word to say about them.

xJill

If we all did that in turn we could keep her occupied for years.


Just to illustrate to you what a mess I have to deal with in my OH. At the age of 22, in an army kitchen, with all the banter that must go on in there, he was made to look an utter fool.

He didn't know,at the age of 22, that women had periods.

If he had been kept in the dark about a fundamentally important thing like that, and he does have a sister, can you imagine how many other basic and important things were hidden from him. Mostly he was living his life around things the way he thought they might be.

Not quite sure how to respond to that Sharron. It suggests that his mother def had a Victorian-type upbringing but heavens!

Uzzi it looks like we have a plan. Start off with Shirley in the West Midlands and then pic another area to move to.

Tell me the sort of property she would go for and expects that you would go for and I'll find some and get the details for you. I can post or scan and e-mail or send you the link. You could happen to leave them within her sight or even better raise the subject yourself. I can give you lots of info about the area so you can appear to have done lots of finding out about here.

I've always said that if I ever won a fortune, money would not change me from the person I am today. I'd still be the same mean, nasty, conspiring, evil...... Hehe.

I suppose you are hoping that the Air Traffic Controllers start strike action.

Jill

Uzzi Your mother and mine must have been related! I went to my mothers funeral and although i am a weepy sentimentalist, I never shed a tear at it. The Narcistic mothers thread has lots of stories of people like this. No congratulations ever, just put downs.

Oh Boy now that idea of property pages really did make me laugh.

It wouldn't work mind because she would just drive me nuts sulking about the idea. Also she won't be visiting me in my van because she doesn't do my animals (and to be fair I won't inflict my mother on them anyway) nor would she be prepared for the fact I live in a mobile home, even tho' she knows I do.
No I shall have to visit her, which in many ways suits me because I can then just walk away when I've had enough.

Like Liz I found the comment from Sue about never wanting a boy heartrendering. I know what it's like to be told you wasn't what was wanted , in my case a girl. Even if it's said in anger or jest it still stays with you and HURTS.
With 9 days to go until she arrives I have decided that I shan't be phoning her, if she wants me she can phone and I might just ignore it at that :P :D

Jean I rarely get praise from my mother but I do think that when she finally toddles off I will probably cry ...might be tears of relief . Seriously it will upset me, it will always leave me wondering if I could have done more

Oh Uzzi.

Not answering the telephone is so liberating. TOG used to ring and expect me to answer immediately and to be instantly available. Not only were there some days that I ignored the telephone but I went one better and unplugged it instead. I once left it unplugged for several days and felt brilliant.

When I was only just old enough to truly understand, he made it clear that he could never forgive me for being a girl. I don't even remember now how I found out that I was meant to die because they couldn't afford a third child so if I died, they could have another and he might be a boy. Then when Al came along TOG was unhappy that she was a girl and when And came along the female parent was unhappy that he was a boy. She came to see him on the day he was born and her first words to me were a very unpleasant "Never mind...." then she made it clear that she did mind a lot. There's just no pleasing some people. But I'm well rid of now. I still feel sick though when the telephone rings even that it can't be them. I only answer it if I get a signal which means it's either hubby or sister.

You will be in my thoughts for all the time she is here if she does come.

How is your ankle by the way?

xxJill

Added Edit

I don't think that you could have done more. I did everything I could because I wanted my consience to be clear. Short of chopping my hands off, there was nothing more I could have done. I might have done things a bit differently but none of what happened was of my making and it's the same with your mother.

You might miss her or grieve for her or cry tears of sheer relief but if you've reached the point when you have no more emotion towards her then so be it. I'd had every ounce of feeling knocked out of me. What I have grieved for is the life that I could have had, not for my parents passing.x

Jillian - prearranged signal for phone reminded me! When I had summonded up the courage to tell her after over 80 years I had had enough, each Christmas Day and birthday the phone would ring and in between she would ring my dau to try and find me.

Again the phone was only aswered if the signal was there - two rings, stop, one ring stop and return call!

My mother decided that no matter what she had been guilty of (if anything) - all should be forgiven and forgotten, sweetness and light on either a birthday or Christms Day.

I miss my father desperately I was only 21 but Mum, no I did not attend her funeral, I felt less than nothing, sad but true.

Like me Chris, you are one of the survivors. We cannot deny our past but hopefully can enjoy the time for ourselves that we never had.

The second weekend after the female parent came out of hospital following her stroke, my sister was due up to see them and stay over for a night. So on the Saturday morning I was with Rob and And watching Al play football. My mobile kept going off with their number and I ignored it because I knew my sister was on the way. About 1.30 we got home and the landline was ringing. Then the mobile, the landline, mobile, and so on. Eventually I got a signal call so picked up when my sister redialed. They didn't know she had rung me. TOG had told her that he wanted to go out. She had to take him and I had to go and care for the female parent. Sister asked if I wanted to and I said I didn't. Quite simply if I allowed the precident of giving up my weekend off from slavery, I knew I'd never get any space again. My sister was in total agreement. Later on that day she came and apologised to me. She said she knew it was bad because I'd told her but she hadn't realised just how badly I was being treated by them. Apparently they were livid. TOG was demanding to know where I was, why I wasn't answering my mobile or my landline and I was being cursed like crazy because they said I should be available at all times as I might be required and how dare I not be.

Christmas and birthdays. HUH. Another story altogether. And the pretense to the friends and neighbours that we were a wonderful, close, happy family. TOG even refused to wish us Happy Christmas (they both refused to wish me Happy Birthday let alone even speak to me). We were required to show up on Christmas Day at the time laid down so it didn't get in the way of their mealand because two excited kids made a noise, couldn't wait for us to leave. I was always pleased when the kids noise bothered them because we could leave asap. Presents to him meant nothing. Whatever you got him would not even be opened and looked at but immediately put out of the way. After a couple of days, they would be returned as not required, unsuitable or of such a low quality. Rarely, if ever was there anything wrong with them but he always found a reason.

When I had to help my bil and sister begin to sort the house we found folder after folder of copies of complaining letters to businesses and individuals and their replies. We really should have told our local MP that she no longer needed the extra staff she must have had to employ to deal with all his crap. Bil found a drawer full of till receipts from Morrisons where TOG insisted that they shop. Apparently he kept them in case they were evidence to get at Morrisons when he could prove they had ripped him off. Every advertising leaflet that had come through the post was filed in its envelope with the date of receipt. He kept so much crap it filled bag after bag to go to the paperbank. All that rubbish he kept and then when I had to empty the waste bin in the bedroom - 'his office' I found the card that my son, his autisic grandson had drawn and coloured for him on his birthday. He thought nothing of something created especially for him by Andrew. He was so ashamed to have a defective grandson.

Yup. Sweetness and light. You can't beat it in a parent can you? Excuse me while I go and throw up.

I'm proud of you for being a survivor Chris. And for still being a nice person.

xJill

I had always wondered if I would feel some kind of distress when my mother died, she always told me I would. Well I didn't and never have.

Somebody wisely told me it was because I had already done all my grieving for what might have been.

That's exactly right Sharron. I grieved for the loss of a mother in 1997 when, after a lot of years of being nasty, she finally turned totally. I'd known that she didn't like me but the extent of her dislike and hatred I'd never realised. From that day on there was someone who looked like her and sounded like her but that was it. She totally destroyed my belief in what it was to be a mother.

Sharron - I used similar words to my daug many years ago, she knew only too well what her nana was like and said I would be sad when she died. I can recall saying - I might cry for what should have been not for what was.

Jill thank you for those words - united we will all stand together in spite of (or because of)!

Hi Uzzi

My first thought when I heard about the Icelandic volcanic eruptions was about you.

I understand from the radio report this afternoon that the north of Scotland is facing disruption to its air services.

Any chance that Mother Dear won't be travelling?

Hope you are not getting too worked up already.

xJill

Does dust affect the flight of broomsticks then?

That's got me laughing Sharron. Well done.