General Chat

Is this one any relation?

Elizabeth Whittlesea
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Marylebone

Civil Parish: Kensington
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Kensington
Sub registration district: Kensington Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 44a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Whittlesea 31
Louise Alice Whittlesea 19


They are sisters.

I cannot find my ggggran Clara Emma Auber born 24 Dec 1835 on the 1841 census. She is not with the rest of the family in 1841 at 3 Crown Court Shoreditch, London. I assume she may have been in the Shoreditch or Clerkenwell area but cannot find her. She'd have been 5 in 1841.

I can't find her so far either Ben. have you found her in 1851? what are the names of the rest of the family? Do you know the names of her Aunts and Uncles? Maybe she was with them. Or was it a large family? Maybe she was fostered with another family and got entered under their name.

Ann
Glos

Hi

Her parents John & Elizabeth were at 3 Crown Court, Shoreditch in 1841. She had two older married sisters Mary Ann Lloyd and Sarah Alexander who lived in Shoreditch.

Emma Auber was another sibling born in 1813 but she had a son Edwin who was born in September 1840 in Union Buildings, Hoxton.

She had an uncle George Helsdon in Bethnal Green.

Ben

And have you found clara Emma in 1851.

Clara is living with her married sister Elizabeth Coombs, nee Auber b1818 in Clerkenwell, London. She is aged 15 and a servant.

Ben

Well i can't even find her in 1851. I assume she is still Clara Emma Auber?

Very elusive family this.

Ann
Glos

Hi

A new sort of breakthrough.

I just looked up Elizabeth Coombs in 1851 myself and found that there was a Clara Coombs living with her and husband Matthew aged 15, a servant, right age to be Clara Auber.

From what I can gather, Matthew didnt have any children called Clara in 1836 by his previous marriage as he had a son Joseph in 1836 who died in 1844. I am now wondering if the Clara Coombs is Clara Auber as Clara Auber later wed Matthew's brother William.

Ben

Sorry Ann, totally lost this thread and my posting.....durrrrrrrrr. Thanks for offering that info but the Kensington Whittleseas were a different lot than mine. Mine were always in Marylebone, from 1855 til 1940. And although that Elizabeth you gave me was born in Marylebone, then moved to Ken. she isn't one of mine (I bought her birth cert in error many years ago).

As for my elusive Florence Whittlesea...her parents William & Elizabeth Whittlesa/Whittlesey can be found on 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891 census returns (both die before 1901). They were both born in March Cambs, and moved to London in 1855. They had 8 children, all of whom can be found on various census returns from 1851 until they marry and flee the nest and Marylebone (apart from 2 who die when young).

But then this Florence turns up in the 1881 census totally out of the blue - no birth reg. no marriage reg. no death reg. so it's all a bit odd.......1, because her mother would have been 45 yrs old when giving birth to Florence, not impossible, but for those days?. 2. all the other siblings were born close together, then there's a 7 yr gap before Florence's birth, ok again not impossible...but? 3. all other siblings were given only family names, but Florence is not a family name AT ALL. 4. All other siblings' births were registered, but nothing for this Florence.

Do you think it's possible in this 1881 census the enumerator put down the wrong name and the child wasn't called Florence at all? Or the enumerator put the wrong age, or put down the wrong status and she wasn't a daughter?
I've checked all William & Elizabeth's grandchildren to see if there was a Florence but there wasn't. So who the heck was she??
What do you make of it?

K .

Hello, can I add a missing Great Great Aunt. I know she existed but all I know is that she was born sometime between 1867 (when a previous sister was born) and 1875 when her mother died. I cannot find her on a cencus but found an Alice Sims in Dover Workhouse on the 1881 cencus. Her father Robert Lyons Sims was born in Dover, I wondier if it was likely that the Poor Law Authorities would send the child back to Dover. The rest of the family were already in employment at this time, presumably that could not look after her.
Glenda in New Zealand

Will come back to this later as I have to go out now but will say that it looks like you have found your answer Ben. Have yous ent for Clara and william's marriage cert? that may give you a lead as to whether it was the original Clara?

Ann
Glos

Nudging this up in the hope that Ben looks back in.

Could I say that it is great that so many have posted. If you are posting to vent your frustrations on 'losing' ancestors that is fine.

If you are adding in the hope that somebody will help with your missing ancestors would you please give as much info as possible. i.e.not just name of missing person but, if possible place and date of birth and names of parents, family or spouse etc. It is difficult for people to search censuses unless they have as much information as possible.

Ann
Glos

Jut a thought for all those who can't find a birth registration......

We would never have been able to find my Oh's Great Grandfather's birth reg if we hadn't known his actual birthdate as he was registered without a name ......Male ( then surname ) was on the cert....he was named later......so it doesn't hurt to look for Male or female...then the surname in the indexes.


My Father's side were a pain too....they were mostly all known by their middle names and chopped and changed them in the census


Susan
x

Clara Emma Auber wed in 1856 aged 20 to Matthew Coombs brother William Thomas Coombs in Hackney, London.

She says her father was John Auber, weaver, which ties in with her 1836 baptism in Shoreditch but her mum would have been 51 when she was born as the mum was born in 1784. Clara's middle name is the first name of an older sister Emma who was born in 1813 and had 3 baseborn children from 1840 to 1850.

Ben

Ben

I reckon she was Emma's daughter brought up by the grandparents. She would then have named her grandad on her marriage certificate. That happened quite often Ben. I doubt you will ever know who her real father was then.

Ann
Glos

Hi Ann

That is why I want to find Clara in 1841. Emma would have been 28 (probably rounded to 25) with a son Edwin aged 9 months.

The middle name for Clara gives it away I think but as said the identity of the father will probably always remain a mystery. Unless I am lucky enough to find a poor law document. I have learnt not to hold my breath.

Ben

Have you not found Emma in 1841 either? Where was she born? and where was edwin born

Ann
Glos

Christine, I think there is a Bermuda Triangle of Family History. My Gt gt Grandfather is probably with your two somewhere. Good job we can laugh about it.

Ann
Glos

Hi

Edwin was born at No 3 Union Buildings, Kingsland Road, Hoxton in September 1840. The birth was registered in October. I have looked under an address search for 1841 but no luck.

Emma would probably be in either Hoxton, Shoreditch or Clerkenwell as she was in Seymour Place, Clerkenwell in May 1843 when her next illegitimate child was born. Bit of a coincidence that Clara, Emma and Edwin are missing from 1841. That is why I have a gut feeling they were together.

Ben

Ann

As i posted earlier i can't find my gt grandad, his Mum and his stepdad in 1901, if Stepdad was in the navy would the whole family be at sea if he was?that would explain their disappearance.