Genealogy Chat

Well, i beg to differ Gary, it does contain some damned good stuff in my opinion, and it's being put together BY and FOR the members. It does actually need folks that know what they are doing and where to seek further than just census stuff. I class you as someone that DOES know what they are doing,

that was genes, is seen as a bogus site with no interest to people with a serious interest in family research, not the 'other side' of which i know nothing about, apart from all those that were on here that are now not

I think there are interested people on here , not so much as in yesteryear maybe, but still folks that want to find a way to get started. I'll agree, serious researches wouldn't give this place more than a fleeting glance anymore

Gary I agree, Genes is not a serious genealogical Site, which is one of the major reasons I will not be renewing my sub. Despite that reservation, I have met many people on here who ARE serious researchers - they tend to be the givers of information, not the takers. The recent explosion of interest in Family History has a lot more to do with it being on-line than anything else. Faced with the prospect of doing it the old-fashioned, hard (and more accurate) way, many people do not bother. It is very sad that there are very few sites dedicated to real and serious genealogical research. Does that make me elitist? Well, let's hear it for elitism then, cos I'm sick of seeing trees which have 180 year old men fathering children on the other side of the world! OC

Gary ........ please remember one thing. Not all of us live in the UK and can personally visit registry offices, cemeteries or any other site on a weekly basis. We HAVE to depend on the internet sites, and on help from people. I have been a member of GR since 2003, and have had some of my tree on here since then, adding more as the fit takes me (I have lots more information that I probably will not put on here). I have just recently started trying to help others asking questions ..... and do what you so obviously dislike, c&p from ancestry or wherever. However, I have also noticed one thing ....... that is that some people (may be just a few) seem to want others to do all the work for them! My view is that I am helping them find information that they have searched for but not found .........a fresh pair of eyes (or thought process) is sometimes all that is needed. BUT it is not MY job to set it all out for them ..... they have to do something as well. Just as I would expect to do that if I had asked for and received help from someone else on here. As for not being a serious site ........... I always tell people to remember that the names they find on GR have been entered by someone, not finding a name is not a definitive that person does not exist. It just means that someone has not yet entered it. It also means that all information taken from here should be double checked just in case! So please try to put yourself in someone else's shoes for once, and think what it might be like for you if you lived in Canada (as I do) or Australia or wherever, and don't be so dogmatic!

Sylvia one of the points i was trying to make, is that to copy and paste information from another site breachs their copy right, it is illigal just like buying lhe latest film and copying it for all your freinds, no other site allows this, only genes allow you to break the law in this way, in theory, as with the record industry, they get a handful of people and sue them for severel thousand pounds for illegaly downloading music, if Ancestry started losing money through reduced customers, they in theory could sue you for your house and home, i guess they never will, but it is worrying genes in theory could put you in that position, like i say go on roots Chat and try pasting anything from Ancestry and you will be barred in an instant.

Gary, I don't wish to get into another argument with you, but you are wrong. My son works for the police and he has advised me that due to the terms and conditions of a subscriber's licence (copied and pasted below), you are permitted to reproduce online any piece of data relating to a family or genealogy. The only times you would be breaking this licence is if you were to publish online a large segment of Ancestry's database rather than just what relates to an individual's family research, or sell look-ups which would be classed as commercial use of the data. *********** Limited Use LICENCE You are licensed to use the Content only for personal or professional family history research, and may download Content only as search results relevant to that research. The download of the whole or material parts of any work or database is prohibited. Resale of a work or database or portion thereof, except as specific results relevant to specific research for an individual, is prohibited. Online or other republication of Content is prohibited except as unique data elements that are part of a unique family history or genealogy. Violation of this limited use licence may result in immediate termination of your membership and may result in legal action against you. You may use the software provided on the Service only while online and may not download, copy, reuse or distribute that software, except where it is clearly stated in connection with software that it is made available for offline use, and a licence for such use is provided in connection with that software. ****************************** Kath. x

Kath. i see what you are saying, but as i see it that means you can produce small amounts of data for your own research, not every person that asks for a look up, just your own family related to you, and again Kath, why is it only this site that allows you to do this, Ancestrys own message boards do not allow it either, just because your son is a copper does not mean he knows everything about the law, i work with a recently retired ex chief constable, and i would not let him out on his own.

I don't think that publication to a public forum such as this can possibly constitute 'unique data elements that are part of a unique family history or genealogy' and so break the terms of the T&C.

I think as with anything, the realms of the copyright are open to interpretation. It seems to me that different people interpret them in different ways.

and i still say this is far better 1901 census. Piece 3207. 17 Oxford Street, Boulton, Derbyshire, Schedule 101. Head: John Holmes, 44, Lamp Lighter, Derbyshire, Alvaston, married. Wife: Fanny Holmes, 41, Derbyshire, Alvaston, married. Son: John J Holmes, 18, Iron Turners Apprentice, Derbyshire, Alvaston, single. Daughter: Clara E Holmes, 14, Derbyshire, Alvaston. Daughter: Florence Holmes, 11, Derbyshire, Alvaston. Son: Charles K Holmes, 10, Derbyshire, Alvaston. Son: William G Holmes, 8, Derbyshire, Alvaston. Son: James H Holmes, 4, Derbyshire, Alvaston. Daughter: Fanny Holmes, 3, Derbyshire, Alvaston. Son: Percy Colenso Holmes, 1, Derbyshire, Alvaston. than this Name: John Holmes Age: 44 Estimated birth year: abt 1857 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Fanny Gender: Male Where born: Alvaston, Derbyshire, England Civil parish: Boulton Ecclesiastical parish: Boulton St Mary the Virgin Town: Boulton County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Shardlow Sub-registration district: Shardlow ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 101 Household Members: Name Age Charles K Holmes 10 Clara E Holmes 14 Fanny Holmes 41 Fanny Holmes 3 Florence Holmes 11 James H Holmes 4 John Holmes 44 John T Holmes 18 Percy Colenso Holmes 1 William E Holmes 8 View Original Record View original image

Sorry, still think you are not reading the terms correctly. It says you can use data relating to A family (not YOUR family). If someone was to copy the details of a whole street of families, maybe this would be in breach of the terms and conditions, but one family at a time (not necessarily your own) breaches nothing. By the way, my son is not a copper - he works for the police authority. UPDATE - I note you don't mind copying and pasting in order to give an example!!!!! Kath. x

i think you are reading it to suit yourself, yes you maybe able to copy out the data in your own style and use it, but i still do not think it is legal to lift the info straight from the page and paste it into another website, especially a commercial one such as this. from roots chat and i think this applies to all websites. Transcriptions and Lookups can be provided freely on RootsChat, as long as Crown Copyright is acknowledged, and that you have transcribed the information accurately. Please note that somebody else's transcription is their own work, which you cannot copy unless they have given their permission. If a moderator spots any tell-tale wording like 'Click for more information' or 'Page 1 of 2' then naturally we can only assume that the transcription is not your own work, and such posts should be reported so that they can be deleted. You MUST however ensure that by posting transcriptions that you personally do not break any licence agreements, or terms of use set by others.

Presumably if a large commercial organisation like Ancestry took exception to the appearance of its material on another large commerial site like GR, it would bring some pressure to bear on the latter to police its forums or face a claim for damages. As long as the lovely money keeps ringing in the till, I doubt that GR care either way what any of us think.

I do clearly remember that another member was banned from a commercial site - not ancestry - because she was doing look-ups which were unrelated to her own family and that site tracked user's movements. OC

Gary I c&p'd this from Kathleen's posting above, and added my emphasis:- Limited Use LICENCE You are licensed to use the Content only for PERSONAL or PROFESSIONAL family history research, and may download Content only as search results relevant to that research. The download of the WHOLE or MATERIAL parts of any work or database is prohibited. RESALE of a work or database or portion thereof, except as specific results relevant to specific research for an individual, is prohibited. As I read that ...... either you doing your own reseach or a professional paid researcher doing it for you can download search results relevant to a particular reseach. Downloading large parts of the database is not on. Resale of a work or database in entirety is prohibited but NOT the resale of relevant portions ....... otherwise professional researchers would not be allowed to charge. THUS ....... I believe there is nothing in there that means it is against the rules when we c&p on here to help other people. I also note that you add information to your c&p ...... I often do exactly the same thing that you do, adding birth years, where born and occupation/relationship to what I have c&p'd. However, I do NOT see that as being so very different from what other people are doing ..... and think that you are just on a wind-up of people! We are all c&p'ing no matter what you say!

sylvia again why is this the only site that allows you to do this if its o.k., and as for my example, the first portion that i showed, from head, down etc, was done as i always do, typed out on word, not copied from ancestry, deleted and added to, the second part of the example was pasted straight from Ancestry as an example of what i think is a rubbish way to display the info legel or not, i have just seen Kath do a copied and paste answer on records and the person then had to ask for birth places for the others on the page, which if you took the time and typed it out it would be more informative, than just pasting from a website which i still maintain is illegal

Sylvia, I agree with you. I have a distant relative (contacted through GR) who is a professional genealogist, and he uses Ancestry (copying data for a specific client) which does not infringe any terms and conditions. I fully intend to carry on copying and pasting. Ancestry also let you 'Share' census images. There is a button on screen for you to do this. Kath. x

we dont do it next door, Gary. Oh and stop being a grumpy old fart! Jess xxxxxxxx

Kath you can only share a limited number of images, as a lossed leader/sales tool, once you have sent out a number of them Ancestry ask the recipient to take out a sub