Genealogy Chat

Oh Thank you. My mum went to live with Uncle Billy and Auntie Edie when Joe
Mullen Died and she had Nowhere to Live.
She loved them very much and treated them as parents.
It was through them that mum met my dad who was a Cousin.
Mum and dad are now buried in a plot in Wigan next to them.
Aunty Edie is the sister of my Grandmother who was born in Cheshire, but whose father moved
To St helens to work in a chemical factory

Thinking about it l dont think the above is correct seeing as mum is only 17 there.
I have to rethink.
I know Aunty Dorothy got mum out of the home and that things didnt work out.
It must have been then when mum went to live with Uncle Billy and
Aunty Edie.
Fortunately there is still a member of that family (dads cousin) still alive.
I'll call her later .

This is a possible birth for sister Dorothy:

First name(s) DOROTHY
Last name OAKLEY
Birth year 1917
Birth quarter 4
Mother's last name Oakley
District Oswestry
County Shropshire
Volume 6A Page 803

Do you know anything more about Dorothy- if she married, did she return to Shropshire/ Wales?
----------------------------------------------------

I assume this is the birth for brother Edward Thomas (no mother's maiden name on GRO index):

First name(s) EDWARD THOMAS
Last name OAKLEY
Birth year 1910
Birth quarter 1
District Oswestry
County Shropshire
Volume 6A Page 602
--------------------------------------------------------

He married Margaret Tudor in 1936- this is them in 1939 (surname is Oakley on original):

Oakey Household (2 People) 1 Rose Cottage , Oswestry R.D., Shropshire, England
Margaret E Oakey 29 Dec 1913 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Edward T Oakey 23 Dec 1909 Male Builders Labourer Married
Closed record
Closed record
-----------------------------------------------

Oh YES this sounds just like Aunty Dorothy. Mum only met her in the home
When she was 16. She got mum out of the home but it didnt work out.
Aunty Dorothy lived in Westhoughton Bolton with her husband Canadian Russel Hurst.. and sons Russel and William.
You couldn't tell they where sisters, mum was short and dark. Aunty Dorothy was
tall and blonde.
Although they were close, Aunty Dorothy visited Uncle Ted in Oswestry whereas
Mum visited with my grandma at a place called Lake Vyrnwy. The most beautiful area where l spent many happy holidays with my gran, and Her sister who owned the farm.
Need to look into what mums dad got up to now, swine.

I spoke to dads cousin Jean earlier, l dont know why she wasn't on the census with
Her siblings.
She confirmed mum lived with them before marrying Joe. Then mum lived with her
In laws until Joe Died in Burma during the war. She then moved back to live with them again.
While she was there she was asked to go and live in St Helens and be a
Helper for Mary Ann Bate ( my paternal grandmother.
While there my dad came home after the war and the rest is history
They married in 1947 at St Josephs church.


Thank you souch for this information. Is there a fee ir charitable donation l could make.

There is someone else l would like to find x

People help because they find family history interesting- you're doing us the favour, by giving us puzzles to solve!

On the 1939 register that your Mum is on, there is a closed record. A closed record indicates a possible living person. Perhaps the closed record is Jean?

Who are you wanting to find- ask away :-)

Just noticed- the marriage for Dorothy- to Charles T R Hurst in 1934.

Son, Russell was born John Russell
----------------------------

Russell's death?

First name(s) CHARLES RUSSELL
Last name HURST
Gender Male
Birth day 7 August 1916
Death quarter 2
Death year 1981
District Bolton
County Lancashire
Volume 38 Page 0050
----------------------------------

If that death is him, then this looks like him in 1939:

Hurst Household 5 Barnhill , Westhoughton U.D., Lancashire, England
Charles R Hurst 07 Aug 1916 Male Bus Driver P S V Married
Closed Record
Closed Record

I suspect the closed records are for Dorothy, and son, John Russell (William wasn't born until after the 1939 register).
---------------------------------------------

A little snippet from the papers:

Manchester Evening News - Tuesday 25 March 1941

Refused To Appear Before Doctors
Charles Russell Hurst (24) of Leigh Common, Westhoughton, fined £5 at Bolton today for a breach of the Nation Service (Armed Forces) Act 1939 was stated to have refused to submit himself to medical examination, declaring he did not believe in war.
The magistrates made an order that Hurst- a conscientious objector, liable to be called up for non-combatant duties only, should be taken before a medical board at Bolton tomorrow.

Your father in 1939:

Bate Household 91 Gaskell Street , St Helens C.B., Lancashire, England

Mary A Bate 22 Sep 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Frances Quaggin (Bate) 13 Sep 1915 Female Hospital Ward Maid Single
Thomas Bate 18 Feb 1921 Male Sheet Metal Filler & Finisher Single

Yes l knew that about Uncle Russ, he was a lovely uncle who had a garage and haulage business. Cousin Billy is still alive, he has a riding school in Wigan.

1939. Dad had 3 susters, Margaret is missing.
Quaggin was Francess Married name. She married Uncle from Isle of Man.
Another lovely holiday destination of mine until l was 7 when they moved.

Mum married dad in 1947. Dads 3 sisters treated mum very much like
Cinderella. They felt above her because she was raised in a home.
I too lived at that address but speak very differently to some of my aunts.

I believe dads dad was gassed during the war but can find no sign of his records.
No one every spoke about him or reminisced ?.

Uncle Teds records will be closed because his sons Bernard and Dennis are still
Alive.
Uncle Ted lost all his fingers from one hand. He used to tell me it was through biting his nails. He worked all his life at The Orthopedic Hospital in Oswestry.

You may notice my username is Mollydolly. This is a nod to my mum who was known as Molly by her relatives.

Thanks you so much for your help

The 1939 register (posted above) for Uncle Edward Thomas shows he was a builder's labourer in 1939.

What was Mary (Mother of Thomas Bate) maiden name?

My paternal grandmother was called Maryanne Latham, born in Nantwich in 1859
I can find Granddad Thomas on 1911 census born Skelmersdale
Living in Baxters Lane. St Helens, Lancs
But can find nothing after that.

The other person is a mystery.
He is my husbands grandfather William Trigg born in Hereford 1854.
He married Mary Jane Lawrence and lived in
Newton e Willows, Lancs.
He is on the 1911 census along with a boarder, widower Peter Heaton.
A few years ago l found out he had spent a few short terms in jail for larceny.
And wonder if this happened in 1901 as his wife and children are with
Mary Janes Parents.
There are also stories that Peter Heaton fathered some of the children.
Hes a slippery character l cant nail lol.
Would love to find out more

There is no William Trigg born in Hereford from 1853 to 1855 showing on free bmd- do you mean Ross or Ledbury districts?

"My paternal grandmother was called Maryanne Latham, born in Nantwich in 1859"

I hope this date is wrong!!

The 1939 Register posted by Austin said she was born 1885 and that she was a Widow ............. so Thomas had died before 1939 ...........

"Your father in 1939:

Bate Household 91 Gaskell Street , St Helens C.B., Lancashire, England

Mary A Bate 22 Sep 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Frances Quaggin (Bate) 13 Sep 1915 Female Hospital Ward Maid Single
Thomas Bate 18 Feb 1921 Male Sheet Metal Filler & Finisher Single"



This looks like your paternal grandparents marriage ..........

Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
BATE Thomas Prescot 8b 1180
Latham Mary Ann Prescot 8b 1180

The 1911 Census, for our help

Thomas was of an age to serve in WW1


1911 Census

Name: Thomas Bate
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Skelmersdale, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: St Helens
Search Photos: Search for 'St Helens' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 37 Manville St St Helens
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Prescot
Registration District Number: 456
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Piece: 22801

Thomas Bate 31
Mary Ann Bate 25 b.ca 1886, St Helens, Lancashire
Mary Bate 6/12 b.ca 1910, St Helens

They've been married 6 years, had 3 children and 2 have died

I can only find 1 death .............. unless Mary Ann had a child before they married


BATE, MARGARET LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 83

Died .......
BATE, MARGARET 6 months
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 447


BATE, MARY LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 721

BATE, MARGARET LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 1510

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Bate Thomas Latham Prescot 8b 1499


??? I think these are another family ......
BATE, GAD DONALD LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1913 M Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 38

BATE, FRANK LATHAM Order
GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 433



Possible death for father Thomas ...............

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Thomas Bate
Birth Date: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Dec 1937
Age at Death: 57
Registration district: St Helens
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 854

He is my husbands grandfather William Trigg born in Hereford 1854.
He married Mary Jane Lawrence and lived in
Newton e Willows, Lancs.
He is on the 1911 census along with a boarder, widower Peter Heaton.


William and Mary Jane's marriage .........

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
Laurence Mary Jane Warrington 8c 245
Lawrence Mary Jane Warrington 8c 245
Trigg William Warrington 8c 245


1911 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age in 1911: 58
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hereford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Newton in Makerfield
Search Photos: Search for 'Newton in Makerfield' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 22 Grafton St Earlestown
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Labour (gler Bricklayer)
Registration district: Warrington
Registration District Number: 459
Sub-registration district: Newton in Makerfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 23109

William Trigg 58
Mary Jane Trigg 36
Richard Trigg 18
Mary Ann Trigg 16
John Trigg 12
Lize Trigg 6
Annie Trigg 4
Janey Trigg 2
Alice Trigg 4/12
Peter Heaton 40 Boarder, Widower
John Ramsdale 39 Boarder, Married


from image ........... Mary Jane has been married 18 years, had 11 children, 8 still alive



William Trigg is old enough to have been married before he married Mary Jane!

Yes of course my grandmother was born in 1886 d1959
Thomas grandfather must have died in 1939 or my grandmother Mary Ann
Wouldnt have asked my mum to be her companian. ( slave)

My dad was also Thomas Bate 1921-1997

The Lathams from Stoke are not my family.

William Trigg, on the 1911 census is listed as coming from Hereford.

from lancs opc

Marriage: 24 Dec 1892 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
William Trigg - 38, Labourer, Bachelor, 60, Regent
Mary Jane Lawrence - 19, Spinster, Newton Common
Groom's Father: Richard Trigg, Labourer
Bride's Father: William Lawrence, Labourer
Witness: Arthur Cook, (X); Winifred Cook, (X)
Married by banns by: E. W. Whittenbury Kaye
Register: Marriages 1879 - 1900, Page 135, Entry 270
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 10 Jan 1894 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Richard Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary Jane
Born: 20 May 1893
Abode: Suez St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: T. R. Matthews
Register: Baptisms 1891 - 1896, Page 47, Entry 373
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 26 Sep 1894 St Matthias, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary Jane
Born: 20 Sep 1894
Abode: 190 Great Howard St
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J McConwell
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1926, Page 374, Entry 2225
Source: LDS Film 1656207

Baptism: 12 Feb 1896 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Martha Elizabeth Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 27 Jan 1896
Abode: 19, Viaduct St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: E. W. Whittenbury Kaye
Register: Baptisms 1891 - 1896, Page 100, Entry 796
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 19 Sep 1900 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Thomas Henry Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 6 Jul 1900
Abode: 33, Bank St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J. C. Matthews
Register: Baptisms 1896 - 1899, Page 33, Entry 293
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 29 Jun 1904 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 14 Jun 1904
Abode: Mercer's Cottages, N. Common
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: T. R. Matthews
Register: Baptisms 1902 - 1905, Page 51, Entry 455
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 1 May 1907 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Annie Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 5 Apr 1907
Abode: 20, Crown St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: A. Ainley
Register: Baptisms 1905 - 1908, Page 49, Entry 434
Source: Original Parish Registe

There are two William Triggs born in 1854 in Herefordshire, none in the city of Hereford

Note that on the marriage from the Lancs opc site that I posted ........... William's father is said to be Richard Trigg, Labourer.

If true, that is an important clue!

???????? possible


1861 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: 1854
Relation: Son
Father's name: Richard Trigg
Mother's name: Eliza Trigg
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Buckenhill
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ledbury
Sub-registration district: Yarkhill
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Household schedule number: 110
Piece: 1811
Folio: 138
Page Number: 19

Richard Trigg 57 b.ca 1804, Woolhope, Labourer
Eliza Trigg 48 b.ca 1813, Sollers Hope, Herefordshire
John Trigg 15
Richard Trigg 10
William Trigg 7
James Mayo 34

Address:- The Gore

All children born Woolhope


Richard has died by 1871 ............

1871 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elia Trigg
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope
Civil Parish: Sollershope
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Sollershope
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 2685
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6

Elia Trigg 61 b.ca 1810, Sollershope, Widow, Pauper <<<< name is Eliza!
John Trigg 25 b.ca 1846, Woolhope, Ag Lab
William Trigg 15 Ag Lab

Address:- Falcon


William is prison in 1881 ......

1881 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Convict (Prisoner)
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope, Hereford, England
Civil Parish: Northwood
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: "Convict Prison" Parkhurst

Occupation: General Laborer
Registration district: Isle Of Wight
ED, institution, or vessel: Convict Prison

Piece: 1174
Folio: 67
Page Number: 8

William's parents Richard and Eliza in 1851 ............

1851 Census

Name: Richard Trigg
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Trigg
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Woolhope
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ledbury
Sub-registration district: Ledbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 13b

Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 1975
Folio: 471
Page Number: 19

Richard Trigg 48
Eliza Trigg 38 b.ca 1813, Salenhope, Herefordshire
Marcy Trigg 7 b.ca 1844, Salenhope
John Trigg 5
Esther Trigg 3
Richard Trigg 1
Isabella Leach 20


Birth registrations ........

TRIGG, JOHN MATTHEWS
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in LEDBURY UNION Volume 26 Page 182

TRIGG, ESTHER MATTHEWS
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in LEDBURY UNION Volume 26 Page 187

TRIGG, ELIZA MATHEWS
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in LEDBURY Volume 06A Page 391

TRIGG, WILLIAM MATHEWS
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in LEDBURY Volume 06A Page 367



Marriage of Richard Trigg and Eliza Mathews

Marriages Dec 1843 (>99%)

MATHEWS Eliza Hereford &c 26 228
TRIGG Richard Hereford 26 228



I can't find Mary's birth registration. I wonder if she was born before Richard and Eliza married?