Genealogy Chat

That is so saddening to read. It appears that Joe got a short straw.
My mum gave my husband a recce badge to put in the Army museum when he was in the TA in Warrington. Wives pinned the army bedges to their handbags.
Once again. Thank you

The following link may be of interest.....

http://www.lancashireinfantrymuseum.org.uk/world-war-ii-1/

Thats great Thank you.
Joe can go on our Family tree now.
So sad he was a lovely young man.
Mum used to have lots of letters from him.
I would read them and admire the beautiful writing.
But l couldn't fathom out who could be calling mum Darling when she was married to my dad.
The letters disappeared years ago . Shame.

Mollydolly....

Re Joe Mullen.

You will find he is buried in Thanbyuzayat War Cemetery..... Google the name of the Cemetery and it brings you to the CWG site for the Far East

MULLEN, JOSEPH




Rank:TrooperService No:3857387
Date of Death:23/11/1943
Age:24
Regiment/Service:Reconnaissance
Corps 18th (5th Bn. The Loyal Regt.) Regt.
Grave Reference:B3. S. 14.
Cemetery:THANBYUZAYAT WAR CEMETERY
Additional Information:
Son of John Thomas Mullen and Mary Mullen; husband of Doris Mary Mullen, of Parr, St. Helen's, Lancashire.

He is also commemorated on the Thai Burma Railway Roll of Honour Site
http://www.roll-of-honour.org.uk/

Oh Thank you. Yes the Warrington one is correct.
The Family lived in Newton- le-Willows which comes under
Warrington.
And it ties in with my in laws marriage certificate in 1931.

There are 2 possible deaths for William


1. If he went back to the Ledbury area. 61 = born ca 1855

Deaths Jun 1916 (>99%)
Trigg William 61 Ledbury 6a 550


2. If he stayed in Lancashire 74 = born ca 1854. This is the death that at least one of the Public Family trees on ancestry has accepted, but without citing the actual certificate

Deaths Mar 1928 (>99%)
Trigg William 74 Warrington 8c 160


You would have to buy the death certificate to determine which one is yours ............. hopefully the informant would be a member of his family!

Thanks for the information. You're a star

That "presumed date of death" was a guess ............ I presume because the authorities had not been able to trace either him or a member of his family (if they did in fact try to contact family members).

One of the public family trees has his death in the late 1920s.


BUT, you should also be aware that not everything on a marriage certificate is the truth!

Fathers are declared dead when they are alive, and not declared deceased when they are!

It often depends on how the vicar asks the question

For example

"What is your father's name?"

may or may not elicit the added information ".... and he is dead"

OR, father may have left the family, they lost touch with him, and so assume he is dead.


No documents had to be shown to the vicar to prove any fact given to him ................. so ages can be wrong, someone may be marrying bigamously, they may be using the wrong name, etc etc etc

Although l was shocked to see William imprisoned so many times.he appears to have been extremely poor. Hopefully l can look into more of his circumstances.
His presumed date of death is wrong. He is down as deceased on my in laws
Marriage certificate in 1931.
Thank you

OMG we had no idea he was so prolific.
It seems l was right assuming he was in Prison.
No wonder he was so old starting a family.
Thank you so much.
I have recmmended you to a friend who will hopefully be in touch soon.
( once her new roof has been fitted).

There a few William Triggs and so it can be difficult saorting out which one is yours.

As you said, he was in and out of prison!

The following do look as if they are your William ............


England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 10
Series HO140
Source A Calendar Of Prisoners For Trial At The Shirehall Hereford For The Year 1870
First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Year 1870
Birth year 1856
Occupation Labourer
County Hereford
Place -
Court Hereford
Age 14
Date 03 Jan 1870
Victim's first name(s) Lord
Victim's last name Littelton
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom

Offence:- Larceny of 9 wires from Lord Littleton, Sollershope
Sentence:- Imprisonment with 1 month hard labour



England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Transcription

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 14
Series HO140
Source A Calendar Of Prisoners For Trial Spring Assizes For The Year 1871
First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Year 1871
Birth year 1854
Occupation Labourer
County Hereford
Place -
Court Hereford
Age 17
Date 23 Mar 1871
Victim's first name(s) Edward
Victim's last name Paine
Victim 2 first name(s) William
Victim 2 last name Stallard
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom

Charge:- stealing counterpane from Edward Paine, Sollershope, on 18 March 1871.
Sentence:- Acquitted of Larceny
.
Charged with Richard Trigg, age 20. Richard found guilty of Larceny (after a previous offence). Sentenced to 3 months Hard Labour

William and Richard also detained and charged with stealing a quantity of wheat, property of William Stallard, at Brockhampton, 18 March 1871. Bill not found.



England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Age 21
Birth year 1852
Occupation Labourer
Year 1873
Date 17 Mar 1873
Court Hereford
Place Herefordshire
Victim's first name(s) John
Victim's last name Jarvis
Source A Calendar of Prisoners Tried at Assizes & Quarter Sessions - Hereford
Series HO140
Piece number 22
Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom

Charge:- Breaking and entering house of John Jarvis, stealing 2 loaves of bread, Sollershope, 18 March 1873

Bill not found



England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Transcription

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 650
Series PCOM3
Source Home Office And Prison Commission: Male Licences
First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Year 1876
Birth year 1854
Place -
Age 22
Date ? ? 1876
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom


Single, Labourer
Crime:- Receiving stolen property from a person who had committed a Burglary. And previous conviction for Felony

Conviction March 29 1876 Hereford Assizes. 10 years Penal Servitude

Previous convictions:- 29 June 1874 Stealing Eggs, and six times summarily convicted of petty larceny, poaching and vagrancy

Next of Kin:- His sister Mary Ann Oakley residing at Lower Buckwell, Parish of Woolhope, Herefordshire <<<<<<<<???????

Apparently learnt to read and write while in Prison

Description:- dark complexion; hair black; eyes grey; 5' 9"; strong build; low forehead overhanging eyes f forbidding countenance

Licensed 24 March 1884

Note at head of sheet:- Dec 16 1875 -- Attempted to escape from his cell by breaking down a portion of the partition wall. Signed Governor of Hereford Gaol



several more, and then





England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Transcription

First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Age 42
Birth year 1853
Occupation Labourer
Year 1895
Date 27 Jul 1895
Court Liverpool
Place Lancashire
Source A Calendar of Prisoners Tried at Assizes & Quarter Sessions
Series HO140
Piece number 161
Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom

6 previous convictions listed, last one in 1890 (stealing 232 lbs brass. 12 months Hard Labour)

Charge:- Stealing 175 lbs brass metal, on 3rd August 1895, Property of Saugar Sugar Company

Conviction:- Guilty of simple larceny, after a previous conviction of felony

Sentence:- 12 calendar months Hard Labour




England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Transcription

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 8
Series MEPO6
Source Convicts List 1896
First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Year 1895
Birth year 1853
Occupation Labourer
Place Liverpool
Birth date ? ? 1853
Date ? ? 1895
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom

List of Persons coming within the provisions of Sections 5, 7 and 8 of the Prevention of Crimes Act, 1871

William Trigg, Liverpool Prison. Birth year 1858 (think this is wrong!) Woolhope, Hereford

Description:- height 5' 7¾"; Hair brown; eyes Black, sunken; Low forehead; lost left little finger at second joint

Sentenced to 12 months for Larceny, Liverpool Assizes, 27-8-95

Date of Liberation, Intended Address and Occupation:- 26-8-96; Earlestown, Lancashire; Labourer

Note (handwritten in red):- Presumed dead 12-11-1936




England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935 Transcription

Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 23
Series MEPO6
Source Habitual Criminals Register 1912
First name(s) William
Last name Trigg
Year 1911
Birth year 1853
Occupation Stoker
Place Liverpool
Birth date ? ? 1853
Date ? ? 1911
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from United Kingdom

Born 1853, Hereford
Description:- lost 4th left finger

Charge:- Shop breaking, Liverpool Assizes (Warrington)

Sentence: 12 months 12-12-1911

Date of Liberation, Intended Address, Occupation:- 12-12-1912; Earlestown; Stoker

Presumed dead 12-11-1936

William's parents Richard and Eliza in 1851 ............

1851 Census

Name: Richard Trigg
Age: 48
Estimated birth year: abt 1803
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Trigg
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Woolhope
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ledbury
Sub-registration district: Ledbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 13b

Household schedule number: 86
Piece: 1975
Folio: 471
Page Number: 19

Richard Trigg 48
Eliza Trigg 38 b.ca 1813, Salenhope, Herefordshire
Marcy Trigg 7 b.ca 1844, Salenhope
John Trigg 5
Esther Trigg 3
Richard Trigg 1
Isabella Leach 20


Birth registrations ........

TRIGG, JOHN MATTHEWS
GRO Reference: 1845 D Quarter in LEDBURY UNION Volume 26 Page 182

TRIGG, ESTHER MATTHEWS
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in LEDBURY UNION Volume 26 Page 187

TRIGG, ELIZA MATHEWS
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in LEDBURY Volume 06A Page 391

TRIGG, WILLIAM MATHEWS
GRO Reference: 1853 S Quarter in LEDBURY Volume 06A Page 367



Marriage of Richard Trigg and Eliza Mathews

Marriages Dec 1843 (>99%)

MATHEWS Eliza Hereford &c 26 228
TRIGG Richard Hereford 26 228



I can't find Mary's birth registration. I wonder if she was born before Richard and Eliza married?

???????? possible


1861 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: 1854
Relation: Son
Father's name: Richard Trigg
Mother's name: Eliza Trigg
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope, Herefordshire, England
Civil Parish: Buckenhill
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Ledbury
Sub-registration district: Yarkhill
ED, institution, or vessel: 11

Household schedule number: 110
Piece: 1811
Folio: 138
Page Number: 19

Richard Trigg 57 b.ca 1804, Woolhope, Labourer
Eliza Trigg 48 b.ca 1813, Sollers Hope, Herefordshire
John Trigg 15
Richard Trigg 10
William Trigg 7
James Mayo 34

Address:- The Gore

All children born Woolhope


Richard has died by 1871 ............

1871 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Elia Trigg
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope
Civil Parish: Sollershope
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ross
Sub-registration district: Sollershope
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 2685
Folio: 6
Page Number: 6

Elia Trigg 61 b.ca 1810, Sollershope, Widow, Pauper <<<< name is Eliza!
John Trigg 25 b.ca 1846, Woolhope, Ag Lab
William Trigg 15 Ag Lab

Address:- Falcon


William is prison in 1881 ......

1881 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Relationship to Head: Convict (Prisoner)
Gender: Male
Where born: Woolhope, Hereford, England
Civil Parish: Northwood
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: "Convict Prison" Parkhurst

Occupation: General Laborer
Registration district: Isle Of Wight
ED, institution, or vessel: Convict Prison

Piece: 1174
Folio: 67
Page Number: 8

There are two William Triggs born in 1854 in Herefordshire, none in the city of Hereford

Note that on the marriage from the Lancs opc site that I posted ........... William's father is said to be Richard Trigg, Labourer.

If true, that is an important clue!

from lancs opc

Marriage: 24 Dec 1892 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
William Trigg - 38, Labourer, Bachelor, 60, Regent
Mary Jane Lawrence - 19, Spinster, Newton Common
Groom's Father: Richard Trigg, Labourer
Bride's Father: William Lawrence, Labourer
Witness: Arthur Cook, (X); Winifred Cook, (X)
Married by banns by: E. W. Whittenbury Kaye
Register: Marriages 1879 - 1900, Page 135, Entry 270
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 10 Jan 1894 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Richard Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary Jane
Born: 20 May 1893
Abode: Suez St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: T. R. Matthews
Register: Baptisms 1891 - 1896, Page 47, Entry 373
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 26 Sep 1894 St Matthias, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary Jane
Born: 20 Sep 1894
Abode: 190 Great Howard St
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J McConwell
Register: Baptisms 1834 - 1926, Page 374, Entry 2225
Source: LDS Film 1656207

Baptism: 12 Feb 1896 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Martha Elizabeth Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 27 Jan 1896
Abode: 19, Viaduct St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: E. W. Whittenbury Kaye
Register: Baptisms 1891 - 1896, Page 100, Entry 796
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 19 Sep 1900 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Thomas Henry Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 6 Jul 1900
Abode: 33, Bank St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J. C. Matthews
Register: Baptisms 1896 - 1899, Page 33, Entry 293
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 29 Jun 1904 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 14 Jun 1904
Abode: Mercer's Cottages, N. Common
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: T. R. Matthews
Register: Baptisms 1902 - 1905, Page 51, Entry 455
Source: Original Parish Register

Baptism: 1 May 1907 St John the Baptist, Earlestown, Lancashire, England
Annie Trigg - [Child] of William Trigg & Mary
Born: 5 Apr 1907
Abode: 20, Crown St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: A. Ainley
Register: Baptisms 1905 - 1908, Page 49, Entry 434
Source: Original Parish Registe

Yes of course my grandmother was born in 1886 d1959
Thomas grandfather must have died in 1939 or my grandmother Mary Ann
Wouldnt have asked my mum to be her companian. ( slave)

My dad was also Thomas Bate 1921-1997

The Lathams from Stoke are not my family.

William Trigg, on the 1911 census is listed as coming from Hereford.

He is my husbands grandfather William Trigg born in Hereford 1854.
He married Mary Jane Lawrence and lived in
Newton e Willows, Lancs.
He is on the 1911 census along with a boarder, widower Peter Heaton.


William and Mary Jane's marriage .........

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
Laurence Mary Jane Warrington 8c 245
Lawrence Mary Jane Warrington 8c 245
Trigg William Warrington 8c 245


1911 Census

Name: William Trigg
Age in 1911: 58
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hereford, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Newton in Makerfield
Search Photos: Search for 'Newton in Makerfield' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 22 Grafton St Earlestown
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Labour (gler Bricklayer)
Registration district: Warrington
Registration District Number: 459
Sub-registration district: Newton in Makerfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Piece: 23109

William Trigg 58
Mary Jane Trigg 36
Richard Trigg 18
Mary Ann Trigg 16
John Trigg 12
Lize Trigg 6
Annie Trigg 4
Janey Trigg 2
Alice Trigg 4/12
Peter Heaton 40 Boarder, Widower
John Ramsdale 39 Boarder, Married


from image ........... Mary Jane has been married 18 years, had 11 children, 8 still alive



William Trigg is old enough to have been married before he married Mary Jane!

The 1911 Census, for our help

Thomas was of an age to serve in WW1


1911 Census

Name: Thomas Bate
Age in 1911: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1880
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Skelmersdale, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: St Helens
Search Photos: Search for 'St Helens' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 37 Manville St St Helens
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Prescot
Registration District Number: 456
Sub-registration district: St Helens
ED, institution, or vessel: 47
Piece: 22801

Thomas Bate 31
Mary Ann Bate 25 b.ca 1886, St Helens, Lancashire
Mary Bate 6/12 b.ca 1910, St Helens

They've been married 6 years, had 3 children and 2 have died

I can only find 1 death .............. unless Mary Ann had a child before they married


BATE, MARGARET LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 83

Died .......
BATE, MARGARET 6 months
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 447


BATE, MARY LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1910 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 721

BATE, MARGARET LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 1510

Births Mar 1921 (>99%)
Bate Thomas Latham Prescot 8b 1499


??? I think these are another family ......
BATE, GAD DONALD LATHAM
GRO Reference: 1913 M Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 38

BATE, FRANK LATHAM Order
GRO Reference: 1914 J Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 433



Possible death for father Thomas ...............

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Thomas Bate
Birth Date: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Dec 1937
Age at Death: 57
Registration district: St Helens
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 854

"My paternal grandmother was called Maryanne Latham, born in Nantwich in 1859"

I hope this date is wrong!!

The 1939 Register posted by Austin said she was born 1885 and that she was a Widow ............. so Thomas had died before 1939 ...........

"Your father in 1939:

Bate Household 91 Gaskell Street , St Helens C.B., Lancashire, England

Mary A Bate 22 Sep 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed
Frances Quaggin (Bate) 13 Sep 1915 Female Hospital Ward Maid Single
Thomas Bate 18 Feb 1921 Male Sheet Metal Filler & Finisher Single"



This looks like your paternal grandparents marriage ..........

Marriages Jun 1905 (>99%)
BATE Thomas Prescot 8b 1180
Latham Mary Ann Prescot 8b 1180

There is no William Trigg born in Hereford from 1853 to 1855 showing on free bmd- do you mean Ross or Ledbury districts?