Genealogy Chat

I found the marriage certificate on another website which listed the father as Soloman Cain.

Which site did you find it on, Nadine?

Can you copy/paste the record here, please?

Posting this just in case relevant - no mms given - maybe one of Charles and Elizabeth's?? :

CAIN, SOLOMAN -
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 597 Order

Here are another couple of Cane /Hosier births :

CANE, BERTIE HOSIER
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 651

CANE, JOSEPH EDWARD HOSIER
GRO Reference: 1893 M Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 151


And Bertie's death:

Deaths Mar 1886 (>99%)
Cane Bertie 0 Hampstead 1a 567

and probably Joseph's as well (he's not on the 1901 census):

Deaths Jun 1893 (>99%)
Cane Joseph 0 Pancras 1b 116

Think this is the marriage that Nadine found (On Ancestry)

Name: Charles Cane (Bachelor)
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1854
Marriage Date: 2 Nov 1873
Marriage Age: 19
Marriage Place: Birmingham, St Mark, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Elizabeth Hosier (Spinster)
Spouse Gender: Female
Spouse Marriage Age: 17
Father: Solomon Cane (Plasterer)
Spouse's Father: Joseph Hosier
Reference Number: DRO 33
Archive Roll: M25/M283

Both living Garbett Street
Witnesses: William Hawker & Sarah Robinson

Don't know if this is connected:-

Baptism
Name: Solomon Cain
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 13 Mar 1876
Father's name: Solomon Cain (deceased- Plasterer)
Mother's name: Rebecca Cain
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hampstead St John
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

There is also this baptism:

Name: Albert George Cain
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Jul 1879
Father's name: Solomon Cain
Mother's name: Rebecca Cain
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hampstead St John
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

Solomon is crossed out and under Rebecca is written 'Single woman'

How do you know that 'your' Charles' father was Charles William?

http://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards/board/records_office/thread/916235?d=desc

(Karen on above old 'Thread' has below, and more)

Chris :)

Hi Jane, I hope that you can help me. My grand-dad Joseph Henry Cain DOB 11/10/1897 Hampstead reg 7/12/1897. His fathers name Charles William Cain thats all I know about him. His mothers name Mary Ann Cain maiden name I believe is Bass 1875. On my grandads birth cert it says " When and where born" 2 Elm Cottages Elm Row Heath St. I dont know if he had any siblings.

. Mary Bass was married before she married my grandads dad. Her former husband was Augustus Hornett who died in mar 1895 and she then married Charles Cain in dec the same year.


Edits (as below for that)

CAIN, JOSEPH HENRY (BASS)
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 634


1901 (Find My Past)
Charles Cain Head Married Male 27 1874 Labourer General Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Mary Cain Wife Married Female 26 1875 Laundress St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Charles Cain Son Single Male 5 1896 - Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Joseph Cain Son Single Male 4 1897 - Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Tom Cain Son Single Male 2 1899 - Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Street Upper Park Road
Parish Hampstead
County London
Municipal ward Belsize
Registration district Hampstead
Archive reference RG13
Piece number 122
Folio 92
Page 35


(if below)

CAIN, CHARLES THOMAS (Bass)
GRO Reference: 1896 J Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 115


CAIN, THOMAS WILLIAM HENRY (BASS)
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 622


Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------------
Cain Thomas William H 2 Hampstead 1a 395


Burial Register summary

Cain Thomas William Henry
Burial date 27 June 1901
Location Camden

https://www.deceasedonline.com/

(if anything else relating on above)


(Baptisms for Joseph Henry, Charles Thomas. London, Ancestry. Hampstead. Both 1897. Oct. 31st. 2, Elm Cottages)

(also)

CAIN, FREDERICK WILLIAM (Bass)
GRO Reference: 1901 J Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 634

(his Baptism, Hampstead. 1901. 21st June. (Born May 16th 1901) 76, Upper Park Road)


1911 (Find My Past)
Charles Cain Head Married Male Labourer Servant 37 1874 Hampstead
Mary Ann Cain Wife Married Female Char Woman 36 1875 Kentish Town
Charles Cain Son - Male Shop Boy 15 1896 Kentish Town
Joeph Cain Son - Male School 13 1898 Hampstead
William Cain Son - Male School 9 1902 Hampstead
Polly Cain Daughter - Female School 7 1904 Kentish Town
Rosey Cain Daughter - Female School 5 1906 Kentish Town
Edy Cain Daughter - Female - 3 1908 Hampstead
Freddy Cain Son - Male - 0 1911 Kentish Town
Address 121 Malden Road N W
Parish St Pancras
County London
Census reference RG14 PN744 RG78 PN26 RD9 SD4 ED1 SN355
(Married 16yrs, 8 children born, 7 living, 1 died)


Births Sep 1903 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Cain Mary Ann J Pancras 1b 142


Births Sep 1905 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------
Cain Rose Elizabeth Pancras 1b 136


Births Jun 1908 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Cain Edith Violet Hampstead 1a 624


Births Dec 1910 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
CAIN Frederick A Pancras 1b 119

(above 4 have Bass, from GRO Index)

The 2 Cane births with MMN Hosier that ArgyllGran posted:

Bertie Cane

in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Bertie Cane
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 May 1885
Father's name: Charles William Cane
Mother's name: Elizabeth Cane
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hampstead St John
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 13 April, private baptism.

Joseph Cane

in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Joseph Cane
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 30 May 1893
Father's name: Charles Cane
Mother's name: Elizabeth Cane
Parish or Poor Law Union: Haverstock Hill St Andrew
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born 1 Jan. 1893. (Not sure about this one, it doesn't give Charles's middle name and he's now a bricklayer's labourer where before he was just labourer and address now is 180 Weedington Rd. where before it was just Hampstead.)

Marriage

Name: Alfred Cain
Estimated birth year: abt 1889
Age: 24
Spouse: Maud Mary Beal
Spouse Age: 25
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1913
Parish: Parish Chapel, St Pancras
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Charles Cain (Scaffolder)
Spouse Father: John Edward Beal
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses: William Duffield & Ellen Beal <<<<<<<<<<<<
---------------------------------------------

Name: Elizabeth Cain (186 Weedington Road)
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Age: 19
Spouse: Herbert Stanley Armstrong
Spouse Age: 21
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 27 Mar 1910
Parish: St Martin, Kentish Town
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Charles Cain (deceased, Labourer)
Spouse Father: John Armstrong
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses: Maud Mary Beal & William Duffield <<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------------------

Name: William Cain
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Age: 23
Spouse: Rosa Ashard
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 4 Dec 1904
Parish: All Saints, Clapton Park
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: Charles Cain (Scaffolder deceased)
Spouse Father: Frederick Ashard
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses: Charles & Laura Farmer
-------------------------------

Name Charles Cain
Estimated Birth Year abt 1873
Age 22
Spouse Mary Ann Hornett
Spouse Age 21
Record Type Marriage
Event Date 24 Nov 1895
Parish St Andrew, Haverstock Hill
Borough Camden
Father Name Charles William Cain (Labourer)
Spouse Father Charles Bass
Register Type Parish Register

Witnesses: Charles WIlliam Cain & Mary Ann Hosier <<<<<<<<<<<<

Nadine, you haven't gone wrong with your family research. It's just that father and son both having the same name has caused confusion.

As you rightly say - Frances M. Cain b.1915 was the daughter of Mary Ann Bass and Charles William Cain.

This Charles William Cain (junior) was the son of Charles William Cain (senior) and Elizabeth.

Helpers on here have worked out that Charles William Cain (senior) married Elizabeth Hosier.

So, Solomon Cain was the father of Charles William Cain (senior), and
Charles William Cain (senior) was the father of Charles William Cain (junior).

This looks to be a brother of Charles William Cain (senior)

Name: Albert George Cain (of 42 Rockford Street)
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Age: 21
Spouse: Maryann Horton
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 1 Apr 1888
Parish: St Martin, Kentish Town
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Soloman Cain (Plaster)
Spouse Father: George Horton
Register Type: Parish Register

Witnesses: Charles William Cain & Mary Horton
-------------------------------------------------

In 1881 Albert is lodging with William Stringer- note he is from Birmingham. Perhaps he is connection as to why Charles was in Birmingham?

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Johnsons Court, Hampstead, London, England

William Stringer Head Married Male 61 1820 Labr Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Ann Stringer Wife Married Female 61 1820 Needlewoman Middlesex, England
Albert G Cain Lodger Single Male 13 1868 - Middlesex, England

It could be that both Charles and George gave Soloman as their father to cover their illegitimacy- But you would need their birth certificates to confirm this:

CAIN, CHARLES WILLIAM
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 433

CUIN, ALBERT GEORGE
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 586

I think this is Albert's baptism (it posted it above too)- (Perhaps baptised as an older child)- Solomon is crossed out and replaced with single woman:

Name: Albert George Cain
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Jul 1879
Father's name: Solomon Cain
Mother's name: Rebecca Cain
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hampstead St John
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

I think this is Rebecca- no Charles with her, and I need to check it further, but it looks promising:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
1, Crockets Court, Hampstead, London, England

Rebecca Cane Lodger Unmarried Female 24 1837 Dress Maker Hampstead, Middlesex, England
S Head Lodger - Male 24 1837 Plasterer Hampstead, Middlesex, England
---------------------------------------------

This is the same woman in 1871- with a son, Albert G- which I suspect is Albert George Cain:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Johnsons Court, Hampstead, London, England

Solomon Heady Head - Male 35 1836 Plasterer Middlesex, England
Rebecca Heady Wife - Female 34 1837 - Middlesex, England
Albert G Heady Son - Male 3 1868 - Middlesex, England
Sarah A Heady Daughter - Female 1 1870 - Middlesex, England

OK, and this is the link- Albert was lodging with WIlliam Stringer in 1881. Charles (his brother) was lodging with the same people in 1861 & 1871:

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
4, Johnsons Court, Hampstead, London, England

William Stronger Head Married Male 44 1817 Labourer Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Ann Stronger Wife Married Female 44 1817 Milliner Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Charles Canion Grandson - Male 5 1856 - Hampstead, Middlesex, England

(Surname Cain on image)
----------------------------------------------------------------

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Johnsons Court, Hampstead, London, England

Henry Davis Head - Male 42 1829 - Middlesex, England
William Stronger Head - Male 50 1821 - Middlesex, England
Ann Stronger Wife - Female 53 1818 - Middlesex, England
Charles Cane Boarder - Male 16 1855 - Middlesex, England

(Stringer on image)

So, it seems that Charles William Senior was the son of Rebecca Cain who was living with Soloman Heady (a plasterer).

The original of this baptism shows that parents Solomon Cain & Rebecca is crossed out and "single woman" written in.

Albert George Cain

in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Albert George Cain
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Jul 1879
Father's name: Solomon Cain
Mother's name: Rebecca Cain
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hampstead St John
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Registers

It has already been posted (twice) Margaret

This would be the entry in the birth index for Charles and Albert's sister, Sarah (listed as Heady on the 1871 census):

CAIN, SARAH ANN
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in HAMPSTEAD Volume 01A Page 570

and sadly, possible death:

Name: Sarah Ann Cain
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Registration Year: 1872
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 2
Registration district: Hampstead
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a Page: 444

Possible death for Soloman 1874:

First name(s) SOLOMAN
Last name HEADY
Gender Male
Birth year 1835
Age 39
Death quarter 2
Death year 1874
District HAMPSTEAD
County London

and burial:

Name: Solomon Heady
Record Type: Burial
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Death Date: abt 1874
Burial Date: 6 Jun 1874
Burial Place: St John, Hampstead, England
Parish or Poor Law Union: St John, Hampstead
Borough: Camden
Register Type: Parish Register
Volume 1A Page 406

Ah- now this looks to be Rebecca with her Mum in 1841 & 1851. Possibly her Mum was later Ann Stringer/ Stronger, so would be the grandmother of Charles and Albert.

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Marvel Court, St John Hampstead, Edmonton, Middlesex, England

Elizabeth Bowden Female 25 1816 Middlesex, England
Ann Cane Female 24 1817 Middlesex, England
Rebecca Cane Female 4 1837 Middlesex, England
----------------------------------------

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Murray Court, Saint John, Hampstead, Middlesex, England

Fredric Hill Head Unmarried Male 39 1812 Porter Hampstead, Middlesex, England
Ann Cane Lodger Unmarried Female 33 1818 Dressmaker Hampstead, Middlesex,
Rebecca - Daughter Unmarried Female 14 1837 Scholar Hampstead, Middlesex,
Thomas - Nephew - Male 3 1848 At Home Hampstead, Middlesex,