Genealogy Chat

These are all the children baptised between 1830 and 1837 born to James and Jane Roath....i also found a possible marriage for them in 1830.

Could these others be his siblings??

. RICHARD ROATH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 22 AUG 1836 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England

2. JANE ROATH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 DEC 1834 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England

3. MARY ANN ROATH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 DEC 1834 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England

4. JOHN JAMES ROATH - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 DEC 1834 Saint Phillips, Birmingham, Warwick, England



Nicky

Sorry, Nicky, I was called away last night and then went to bed.
Thank you again for your last posting. I think that is most likely the family, but if it IS the right John he never used the middle name again and always gave a birth date of some 4-5 years later, so I'm not sure that is final proof he is one and the same John. What do you think?
If you are right about the siblings that would link up with other Roaths in Birmingham.
It was also probably the Jane Roath (wid) who appeared on the 1851 census with
Mary Ann 18,
Richard, 15,
John 13, (Who were all burnishers as 'my' John was throughout his recorded life) also
George 9,
CHarles 6,
William 9mth

What do you think?
thanks again
Jill

Hi Jill,

Yes I think the baptisms I gave you do match the family you have found in 1851, but wether that is YOUR John and his family I don`t know.

Do you know John mothers maiden name? if so the birth cert. of one of the younger children would confirm it.

Also I notice on that census that youngest child William is only 9 months old.......does that match up to father James death being in the previous 18 months?
Are the family on the 1841 census?

The only other explanation I can come up with is that John James Roath born and baptised 1833/1834 died by 1837, and then there was another son born c1837 who they gave the same name to.....that was very common practice......

I think you need to try and get a look at the ST Philips records and see if you can find the john born 1837 on them.



Nicky

I've found a death for James in 1847. But I'm not really in my thinking mode at the moment as I have to go out soon an won't be back till tonight.
Jill

If the James Roath death you have found in 1847 is him, then he`s obviously not the father of william 9 months on the 1851 census...Wonder if he`s the son of daughter Mary Ann age 18....sorry havn`t got Census access at the moment so can`t check the image....Is there anyone else who could do that please?

Another way may be to track the mother Jane Roath through the census up till her death, and then order the cert.....it may say wife/widow of James Roath .


Nicky

HAve to go out now til tonight. Will work on that one Nicky,
Thanks
Jill

Well this looks to be the same family but in 1861..


Piece: RG9/2130 Place: Ladywood -Warwickshire Enumeration District: 13
Civil Parish: Ladywood Ecclesiastical Parish: St Barnabas
Folio: 7 Page: 7 Schedule: 34
Address: 18 Crt Bk 52 Grosvenor St W



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Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROATH Jane Head W F 48 Laundress Warwickshire - Birmingham
ROATH Mary A. Dau U F 28 Burnisher Warwickshire - Birmingham
ROATH George Son U M 20 Metal Smith Wales - -
ROATH Charles Son U M 17 Tin Plate Worker Wales - -
ROATH William Son U M 10 Scholar Warwickshire - Birmingham
ROATH Henry Grnson U M 4 Scholar Warwickshire - Birmingham


Seems to confirm William IS Janes son.
Does the address match up with Johns marriage cert. from 1857 to Rosanna?

Nicky

Think this may be Janes death


Deaths Sep 1873 (>99%)
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ROATH Jane 66 Aston 6d 173



I found a Jane Roath on the 1871 census age 64, which i think is her, but couldn`t look at it, if it is her the death entry above fits in.....

Also found a Jane Morris baptism in 1807 at St Philips on the IGI which I think could be her if the 1830 marriage is correct.


Nicky

I'm home!
Thanks for all the work, Nicky. That is the family I thought it might be but the John in that family was born in 1838 so it still doesn't tie in with John b 1833
BUT.... you clever thing! Fancy me not looking a the address on the cert. John's address on his marriage cert is Grosvenor St West!!!!!:)
So you've cracked it for me - and such a simple thing as well! That'll teach me! THis family is certainly MY one even though John isn't in the house on the census day. it has also linked up the Wales connection.
got to go and look through all my census returns...... I don't know why they were in N Wales but I have found a death for a James roath (Jane's husband?) in Holywell in 1847 so it looks as if she returned 'home'.
Thanks for that Nicky. I am trying to link all the Roaths up as the names are repeated in all the families, especially my ggrandad George Frederick (as Johns son was)
cheers
Jill
PS Silly me - John was married by 1861

Glad you`ve managed to piece it all together Jill......amazing how another pair of eyes picks up something you`ve missed...

Your still mentioning the John James baptism in 1833 not tying in with your John c1837, prehaps you missed my posting before where i suggested that John James died before 1837 so the next son was called John... { your John} hopefully..


Nicky

Sorry I didn't reply Nicky, but I've been dealing with OH in hospital all day!
I did take on board your suggestion that there was another John and I have been looking for him but haven't spent enough time yet. as he must have died between 1834 and 1837/8 when 'my' John appears to have been born.
I thought I might join the Birmingham Family History society to get someone to do a 'look up' for me on the Parish registers.
I found the family on the 1841 census still in Wales with:
John Roath 30 Wire drawer
Jane Roath 30
Mary 8 (or 9)
Richard 5
Jane 5
George 11 mth
all not born in county except George.
John wasn't there but there was 'a' John Roath died in Birmingham in Mar 1841
Does it give the mothers name on the death cert or just the informant?
Jill
Jane 5

Don`t quote me on this ....but, i think on a childs death cert. it gives the parents names.

Though I don`t think that 1841 death could be John James as IF he died I would imagine it was before the other John was born c1837, I can`t imagine they would have had 2 children called John alive at the same time!

As for not being able to find John c1837 baptism, I would imagine it is in the same batch as George Charles and William the younger children.

Now you just need to find John Roath age approx. 3 on the 1841 census, maybe hes with grandparents?.

Nicky

Well this looks like Georges baptism

GEORGE FREDERICK ROATH Pedigree
Male


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: 05 JUL 1840

Christening: 26 JUL 1840 Holywell, Flint, Wales

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: JAMES ROATH Family
Mother: JANE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.

Nicky

Heres the transcription of the family in 1841..


ROOTH, James M 30 1811 VIEW
ROOTH, Jane F 30 1811 VIEW
ROOTH, Mary F 9 1832 VIEW
ROOTH, Richard M 5 1836 VIEW
ROOTH, Jane M 5 1836 VIEW
ROOTH, George M 0 (11 months) 1841 Flintshire VIEW

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RG number:
HO107 Piece:
1413 Book/Folio:
5/47 Page:
5

Registration District:
Holywell Sub District:
Holywell Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Holywell Municipal Borough:
Holywell Address:
Spring Bank, Holywell, Greenfield County:
Flintshire

Nicky

Thanks for that Nicky,
I have been looking at all the stuff I have and I saw the 1841 family but where was John? The spelling variations are getting confusing!
'My' George Frederick Roath was obviously named after the Wales one and was born in 1857 - I have the cert, son of john and Rosanna Roaf (another spelling variation)
John was 20 on his marriage cert in Aug 1857. and 31 on the 1871 census
There is a John, brother of my George age 43 on the 1901 census.
I think they must have fallen on hard times as there is a George Roath age 60 on the 1901 census in the Birmingham Workhouse on Spring Hill.
He had been living with his brother Richard on the 1881 when he was 40

I wonder where John was in 1841?
Jill

Iv`e got census access again and did a good search earlier for John Roath born c1837 ,tried all sorts of spellings etc, but drew a blank.

Will have another look later...


Nicky

I've trawled ad infinitum, Nicky, and my one thought was that Jane Roath might have been pregnant with him as he shows up as 40 on the 1881 census.
But if that was the case his birth should show up on the registers and I have looked and looked. If only I can get his birth cert that should be the final proof.
But he said he was 20 on his marriage cert in 1857
and he was down as age13 in 1851
sigh!
jill

Yes i took another look for the elusive John Roath in 1841 and like you still couldn`t find him...

Even if he was born c1840, it dosn`t mean his birth would be registered as it wasn`t compulsary, well actually it was up to the registrar to make sure all births were registered, but I suspect if you lived in a rural area there was less chance of that happening.

The onus was put on the parents to register a birth from 1875 onwards, with the threat of a fine if they didn`t, despite this some children still wer`nt registered....


Nicky

Just a thought but have you succesfully traced all his siblings through the census?........ Bit of a long shot i know, but could it be possible that he was baptised Richard for instance but known as John?

clutching at straws here, but really just trying to explore all possibilities...


Nicky

This looks like John Roaths death entry.... age still consistent with an 1837/38 birth...

Deaths Mar 1920 (99%)
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ROATH John 82 Aston 6d 716

and Richards

Deaths Dec 1923 (>99%)
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ROATH Richard 87 Birmingham 6d 274



Nicky