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Ann There is only one John Howley and he is 22 living and born in Southwell.

Many thanks for the Mussons Robin! I don't suppose you happen to know the Index number (folio etc) for Claypole in the 1861 census. It doesn't appear to be on the Lincs disks but ... Failing that, do you happen to know if Claypole is on the Notts 1861 and were there any Mussons? Thanks.

Cheryl I am sitting in Hucknall at the moment!!. It is 7 miles from Nottingham and the same from Mansfield and you will not miss it on the map.Junction 27 M1. I am just about to start the checks you asked for but can you tell me all you know about the Atkin connection.

Geoff In Notts again 1861.Piece 2482,Folio 47 Old Law, Claypole,House 20 John Musson. Head. Marr, 47 yrs Ag Lab b Long Bennington Ann, Wife 45yrs, Elizabeth 15 yrs, Fanny 11yrs John 9yrs Farm Day Boy, Thomas 7yrs, Julia Ann 5yrs, Jane 4yrs, Robert 2yrs. All b Claypole. There are other Musson references at Folio 80/81 Fulbeck but the scans are unreadable. Folio 126, Syerston Village, House 13 Henry Musson, Head, Marr, 45yrs, Ag Lab b Easton Elizabeth, Wife, 47yrs,b Syerston, Sarah E, Dau, UnM, 19yrs, Dress Maker,b Barrowby, William H, Son, UnM, 15yrs, Labourer,b Syerston. If you need to find a Piece No, go t0 ProCat Reader, Search and type in Place, Year and HO to 1851 or Rg afterwards,

Thanks for looking up John Howley for me. Is it possible to give me all the instances of this surname in Notts in 1851? Don't think there will be very many. Thank You

Hi Geoff After spending time trying to sort out my John Atkins's I think I might be wrong about the original John Atkins. I'll try and explain this is the information I've got: William Henry Foden b 1920 Greek St Nottingham (my Dad) Mary Atkins born b 1896 Hucknall (my Gran) Married Henry Foden b 1881 in Congleton John Atkins born 1872 Hucknall ( my Gr Grandad) married to Ellen ?born 1870 in Staffs John Atkins born 1850 Staffs (my Gr Gr Grandad) His wife was Mary Hardstaff born Hucknall 1853) That could explain why there is no record of John Atkins born 1850. Sorry to confuse you its only since I sat down with pieces of paper I've worked it out.Too many John's and Mary's. Again so!!!! sorry for the confusion Regards Cheryl

Ann The John I gave you is at 3 King Street, Southwell, I cannot read all the names of the household but he is the only Howley. The surname appears to be Wright and the head is a Draper and Grocer, I assume it is a shop and John is a Draper22yrs b Southwell. At Piece 2131, Folio 82 119 Parliament Street, Nottm Joseph Howley, Head. Marr, 23, Fence Pallister, Bethnall Green Jane , wife, 19yrs Polisher, b Ireland Kate dau,9months b Nottm.June Mother, 46 Yrs b Cambridge,Stephen? Brother, 14yrs b Staleybridge Cheshire At Piece 2126 Folio 73 Tag Hill, Heanor (Derbys) Maria M Howley, Servant, 16yrs b Ilkeston Derbys. She is with Blake?Mandale, Curate of Heanor

Would you be able to check for a Sarah Ann Campsall born - 1842 Place - East Retford Thats all I have I'm afraid.. Regards Martin

Robin, thanks for the 1861 Mussons, also for the tip about PROCat.

Geoff Thanks so much for all your info on the Howley family.

Martin I have drawn a complete blank on Sarah.There is one family at 46 East Gate Worksop,looks like George 26, but thats a guess and Mary 20, with three unreadable children, The other is a John 31/Elizabeth 26,, a boatman also at Worksop, with no children. I have tried all spelling combinations and the only ones in the Retford area are Camsell but two 60 year old sisters. There is one on the IGI christened at Worksop 1845 mother Mary but no father. She is the nearest I can find.

Cheryl I cannot find much in 1851 as the scans are not very good. These are from 1841 and are the only ones I can find in the Hucknall area . At 9-855 Annesley William Hardstaff, 45yrs Farmer/Joiner, Marey 35yrs, Thomas 15yrs,Mark 12yrs, Hannah 7yrs, Miria 7yrs,Sara 4yrs,Eliza 2yrs At 6-33 858 Coupes Buildings, Hucknall William Hall, 70, Shoe Maker, Ann 47 yrs, Sarah 14yrs At 6-32 858 Same address Sarah 25 Cotton Stocking Seamer,Mary 6yrs,William 5yrs, Elizabeth 3yrs, John 1yr These may be living in the same house or adjacent. All the above are born in the County and the spellings are as listed. There is a christening for a Sarah at Hucknall 20.3.1825 to a William and Ann.

Dear Geoff, You seem to be a bit quieter at the moment and I have now retrieved the 1841 inform. you sent me. Could you see where these people are in 1851, please. Thomas Baxter aged 56 wood sawyer bn Notts John Baxter aged 26 brushmaker bn Notts William Baxter aged 17 wood sawyer bn Notts Samuel Baxter aged 14 stone mason. In 1841 they all lived in Mansfield in Rock Valley where they were born. This inform is from 1841 so they are all 10 years older for 1851. With thanks, Tricia

Hi Tricia I have only checked Mansfield so far.1851 Piece 2124. Folio 181, 174 Meeting House Lane William Baxter, Head , Marr, 22yrs , Wood Turner .Lowdham Bessy/Betsy, Wife 20yrs Ann Dau 11m Both b Mansfield Folio212 56 Bath Lane Thomas Baxter, Head Marr, 66Yrs, Labourer Ann Wife 60Yrs Samuel Son Marr, 24yrs Labourer Mary Wife, 27yrs Eliza GDau, 4yrs All b Mansfield At 26 Nottm Rd, there is a James 27/Sarah 34 with 3children At 93 quarry Lane, there is a James 52/Martha 53 with Mother in law At Folio 191 there is a William 57/Elizabeth 48 with 3 adult daughters. All the females are b in Ireland. Can you let me know if any of these fit . Do you have any wives names in 1861?

Thank you once again. Folio 21256 Bath Lane is the correct family but minus William and John. I wasn't aware that Samuel and Mary had a daughter so I am very pleased with this discovery. However, you have given me entries for a James Baxter and his name was John. I know nothing about William and John after 1841 and was hoping the 1851 census would pin them down for me. I have no idea if they died or married. I think the William you have given may be too young considering the other ages are correct. What do you think, Regards, Tricia

Hi Robin Thanks so much for all the help you have given me its really appreciated. I am going to try and follow up the leads you have given me. I am going to try and come up to Nottingham over the summer to see some of these places myself. Again thanks very much Regards Cheryl

Tricia As you say Thomas looks right and I gave you the William as that was the only one anywhere near the right age. The others are all there are in Mansfield, ie No Johns. I will spread the search a bit further and see what Ican find.

You very kindly looked up all instances of the name Howley in Notts for me. I can't understand why Edward (or Teddy) Howley was not on there, as he got married in early April 1851 in Carlton in Lindrick, and his marriage certificate stated that he was resident in Carlton in Lindrick. I would be really grateful if you could check this for me. Thank you.

Thanks, Robin, Would you be able to check out Elizabeth Baxter who is aged 4 on that 1851 census - I spent 11 hours at the weekend drawing out family trees and collating information for the relatives I am visiting at the weekend and now I have this lady to add. I suspect as with most of my relatives she probably died at a young age! If not I have another family line to trace. The Samuel mentioned - her father - was living in Snenton Lunatic Asylum from 1861 til 1871 when he died. Quite sad, because I have discovered that he was an epliletic and died from a fit at the age of 45. His wife took Henry to Derbyshire at this point but Elizabeth may have married before then. As always your help is much appreciated and quite invaluable! Regards, Tricia

Ann I believe I may have found him mis transcribed on the Index. Can you give me his wifes name. It looks like Bessy or Cissy to me? and there is a daughter 14 months named Ann. Is his wifes maiden name Spencer? PS There isonly one Howley in the County in 1841. His name is given as Thomas, 15 yrs a servant at Gateford Road, Worksop. Place of birth is usually given as Y or N for born in the County or not. This one is marked X which I have not seen before. Assuming that X means outside the Country, I wonder if this is John/Teddy bearing in mind the age and location???