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PM from Edward re Alice - referring to my post on 31 Oct at 14:41:
"She wasn't illegitimate, she disowned by her family for some reason to which my father in law has no answer to."
Edward -
In your opening post you said she was disowned "when she was older".
Do you know when? - childhood? adulthood?
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As far as Alice is concerned, there seem to be two contenders, who may have been mistaken for each other somewhere in your family's minds. Did some other family member try to work out the family tree before, and maybe picked the wrong Alice?
To recap:
The Alice Maud Styles who was born in 1877 in Portsea, with father George who was a gunner in the Royal Marines, married Edward Cooke in 1895, was still with Edward in 1901 and 1911, and died as Cooke in 1953.
The Alice Maud M Stiles who married George Henry Sanders in South Molton 1896, was with him and their 3 children William, Edwin and Ellen in Charles, Devon in 1901.
George was born in Charles, as you said.
He was an agricultural labourer in 1901, and died in South Molton in 1909.
In 1911 she's still living in Charles, widowed, with children William, Ellen, Alice, Emily, and Frederick.
Alice died in Portsmouth in 1962.
1901 and 1911 censuses both say she was born in Portsmouth.
BUT -
she has no daughter named Bessie, and as Rose has said, Bessie's mother's name was Hills, not Stiles/Styles.
Re-posting the probable 1911 for Bessie, for ease of reference;
Bessie Sanders
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Bessie Sanders
Age in 1911: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1907
Relation to Head: Niece
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Charles, Devon
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Higher Cross Farm, East Buckland, South Molton
Registration District: South Molton
Registration District Number: 283
Sub-registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Piece: 13299
Household Members:
Name Age
George Hill 36
Ellen Hill 44
Lucy Hill 17
Bessie Sanders 4
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Rose, Bessiewas from Ellen's side of the family.
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George Hill maried Ellen Crocker Sanders, as Rose has said.
Ellen had a brother George H, born in Charles c1870: [ already posted by Erika, I've just noticed ]
George H Saunders
in the 1871 England Census
Name: George H Saunders
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: 1870
Relation: Son
Gender: Male
Where born: Charles Devon England
Civil Parish: Charles
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration District: South Molton
Sub-registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household Schedule Number: 11
Piece: 2181
Folio: 65
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
George Saunders 36
Maria Saunders 35
Maria Saunders 7
Ellen C Saunders 6
George H Saunders 1
George Saunders
in the 1881 England Census
Name: George Saunders
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relationship to Head: Son
Father: George Saunders
Mother: Maria Saunders
Gender: Male
Where born: Charles, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Charles
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Charles Bottom
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 2242
Folio: 37
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
George Saunders 46
Maria Saunders 43
George Saunders 11
William Saunders 9
Frederick Saunders 6
Edwin Saunders 3
By 1891 George is a soldier:
George Sanders
in the 1891 England Census
Name: George Sanders
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Relationship: Private
Birth Year: 1870
Birth Place: South Molton, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Residence Place: Chelsea, London, England
Registration District: Chelsea
Sub registration district: Chelsea, South
ED, Institution or Vessel: 1st Battalion Coldstream Guards and Army Service Corps
Neighbors:
Piece: 66
Folio: 99
Which leads us back to George and Alice in Charles in 1901 - George born c1871 (per census) in Charles.
So if George was indeed Bessie's father, perhaps he had a relationship with a sister of George Hill (his brother-in-law).
Or some other woman named Hill or Hills (as per Bessie's birith record).
Perhaps he didn't marry Miss Hill/Hills, (he was already married to Alice) but was willing to accept parental responsibility, so Bessie was named Sanders and brought up by her aunt Ellen. Just a possibility!
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I may have to eat my words!
In view of the many varied spellings of Stiles in the birth records of her siblings, perhaps Bessie's mms of Hills isn't so far out after all - possibly combined with mistranscription
Alice & George's children Ellen and Edwin have mms Stiles (NB: not Styles) , as already posted.
Births of later children who are listed in 1911 census:
SANDERS, FREDERICK JOHN mms HYLES
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 378
SANDERS, EMILY WINIFRED mms STOYLES
GRO Reference: 1904 J Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 394
SANDERS, ALICE MAUD mms STOYLE
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 409
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Alice Sanders
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Alice Sanders
Age in 1911: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Portsmouth, Hampshire
Civil Parish: Charles
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street Address: Village, Charles, Near South Molton.
Marital status: Widowed
Registration District: South Molton
Registration District Number: 283
Sub-registration District: South Molton
ED, institution, or vessel: 06
Piece: 13298
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice Sanders 34
William Sanders 13
Ellen Sanders 10
Alice Sanders 9
Emily Sanders 7
Frederick Sanders 1
Athough 1901 and 1911 both say that Alice was born in Portsmouth - Portsmouth came under Portsea reg distrcit until 1900, so technically, she was born in Portsea.
However, the only Alice Maud Styles/Stiles/or other similar spelling born there was the one who maried Edward Cooke.
There was an Alice Gyles born in 1877, but her middle name was Maria, and she was unmarried in 1901.
As already said, you need Alice's 1896 marriage cert to see who her father was - if known.
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Thank you everyone for all your helpfull comments re Alice Maud Styles (Stiles), I am going to talk with Arthur Gill and see if he has any more info that may help as he is 90 years old he may remember something that could make a link.
Regards Eddie.
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The foolproof way to get info is to buy at least one copy cert
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Apologies ErikaH, thought I had to reply to your reply.
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No probs - replying on here means that everyone can see - and evaluate - your info
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Ellen Hill was Bessie Sanders Aunty, her mother was Alice Maud Styles, the hill family only fostered Bessie Sanders as she was only 2 years old when her father died.
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If you don't already have it, you need to buy a copy of Bessie's birth cert.
Details copied here again in case you can't find it earlier in the thread:
SANDERS, BESSIE (mms HILLS )
GRO Reference: 1906 D Quarter in SOUTH MOLTON Volume 05B Page 382
I'm pretty sure that although her mother's maiden name has been transcribed as Hills (and may actually say Hills on the cert - who knows), that's just one of the many varied ways the name was written/spelled/mistranscribed on various records already posted.
Stiles/Hyles/Stoyle/Stoyles on the other children's birth certs.
However, only the cert will prove it one way or the other.
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