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Maybe Kathleen left Gina with the manning family to look after
Gina Hall in 1921
1921 Census Of England & Wales
45 Cromwell Road, Caterham, Surrey, England
Household members (10 people)
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First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
Elizabeth Manning Head Female 1861 60 Boston, Lincolnshire, England Laundress L Lewen Victoria Laundry Caterham Surrey
Mabel Mary Manning Daughter-in-law Female 1885 36 Caterham, Surrey, England Home Duties -
Herbert Manning Grandson Male 1908 12 Kenley, Surrey, England - -
Percy Thomas Manning Grandson Male 1910 10 Purley, Surrey, England - -
Grace Manning Granddaughter Female 1912 9 Purley, Surrey, England - -
Dorothy Ada Manning Granddaughter Female 1914 6 Caterham, Surrey, England - -
Kate Marion Hall Visitor Female 1894 27 Caterham, Surrey, England General Domestic Servant Private Out Of Work
Elizabeth Wilford Lodger Female 1851 70 London, London, England General Domestic Servant Private
Gina Hall Boarder Female 1917 4 Croydon, Surrey, England - -
Percy Thomas Manning Son Male 1888 33 Hythe, Kent, England General Labourer F G Minter Builder & Contractor
She was out of work but could have found live in employment later
I know my mum went into live in domestic service in the 20,s !
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So the manning family are connected to the Hall family !
Birth
MANNING, PERCY THOMAS HALL
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 242
Marriages Dec 1908
HALL Mabel Mary Croydon 2a 637
MANNING Herbert Croydon 2a 657
Page nos differ !
Edit this has been posted before but my iPad didn’t update ! :-(
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Births of four of the Manning/Hall children who are on the 1921 census were posted at 10:00.
Parents' marriage already posted.
But as already said - I don't see an obvious relationship between their mother Mabel Mary (nee Hall) and Kathleen, who had different fathers who were not brothers.
Kate Marion Hall (on Shirley's posting of 1921 census) was a sister of Mabel Mary:
Kate Marion Hall
in the Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Kate Marion Hall
Baptism Date: 19 Jul 1892
Baptism Place: Caterham, St Mary, Surrey, England
Parish as it Appears: Caterham
Father: Samuel John Hall
Mother: Catherine Hall
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Terence -
is the information that Kathleen May was Gina's mother from the birth cert, or just from an Ancestry tree?
Just wondering about the middle name Marion, which both Gina and Kate Hall have.
If the info re Gina's mother is only from a tree - perhaps Kate Marion is her mother, and not Kathleen May??
Can't see Kate anywhere after 1921. No obvious marriage or death, and not in 1939.
ADDED:
Hmmm - none of the public Ancestry trees on which Gina appears names her mother .
And none of the public Ancestry trees with Kate Marion has any info about a marriage or death.
Kathleen May (May Kathleen) is on one public tree, but only as an un-named (private) daughter of her named parents.
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Kate Marion Hall’s birth was registered in 1892 in Godstone district
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I realise that Gina is with Frank and Kathleen Sivyer in 1939, and that Frank's bride is Kathleen M Hall at marriage.
Do you have the marriage cert, Terence, to see Kathleen's full name (if given), and her father's name?
You say that Kathleen May (May Kathleen) was born 1896 (and she was) - but 1939 says 31 March 1892.
I know YOBs are often wrong in the 1939 Register - but if correct, that would fit with Kate Marion's birth registered in A/M/J quarter of 1892.
May Kathleen's birth was registered in J/F/M quarter of 1896.
She was baptised 17 March 1896, so not born 31 March.
It's very unusual for the whole date to be wrong in 1939, though the year often is.
I'm wondering if Kate Marion had begun calling herself Kathleen at some point between 1921 and 1925. Maybe sounding more grown up?
ADDED:
Deaths Mar 1979 (>99%)
SIVYER KATHLEEN MARION 31MR1892 CROYDON 11 2413
I think that proves that Gina's mother was Kate Marion Hall 1892, sister of Mabel Mary Hall who married Herbert Manning - and not May Kathleen Hall 1896.
Presumably Mabel brought Gina up and she took the name Manning.
Kate called herself Kathleen, and married Frank Sivyer.
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Terence
If you wish to be accurate, buy some certs ;-) ;-) ;-)
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Following up on May Kathleen just for interest - though she's nothing to do with Terence's query after all. (But get the Sivyer marriage cert for confirmation, Terence.):
Kathleen M Hall
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Kathleen M Hall
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 14 Jan 1896 <<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 9 Barnfield Avenue
Residence Place: Kingston-Upon-Thames, Surrey, England
Occupation: Teacher of English L C C Technical Ins?? [ Institute ]
Line Number: 26
Schedule Number: 99
Sub Schedule Number: 4
Enumeration District: Cmrp
Borough: Kingston-Upon-Thames
Registration district: 30-1
Household Members Age
John H Bradford 28
Emilie S Bradford 72
Mary A Bradford 42
Kathleen M Hall 43
Kathleen May Hall
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Kathleen May Hall
Death Age: 85
Birth Date: 14 Jan 1896 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration Date: Jul 1981[Aug 1981] [Sep 1981]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Weymouth
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume: 23
Page: 0879
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Wow!!! Thank you all so much for all this extra information on "Gina".
When I mentioned about adding it to the file, I make a hard copy of all your advice to to follow up later, in case anything happens to the computer.
As you know, I'm currently trying to sort out my own early ancestors.
Again, many thanks to all of you for your help.
Terence.
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