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Wow!!! Thank you all so much for all this extra information on "Gina".
When I mentioned about adding it to the file, I make a hard copy of all your advice to to follow up later, in case anything happens to the computer.
As you know, I'm currently trying to sort out my own early ancestors.

Again, many thanks to all of you for your help.

Terence.

Following up on May Kathleen just for interest - though she's nothing to do with Terence's query after all. (But get the Sivyer marriage cert for confirmation, Terence.):

Kathleen M Hall
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Kathleen M Hall
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 14 Jan 1896 <<<<<<<<<<<
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 9 Barnfield Avenue
Residence Place: Kingston-Upon-Thames, Surrey, England
Occupation: Teacher of English L C C Technical Ins?? [ Institute ]
Line Number: 26
Schedule Number: 99
Sub Schedule Number: 4
Enumeration District: Cmrp
Borough: Kingston-Upon-Thames
Registration district: 30-1
Household Members Age
John H Bradford 28
Emilie S Bradford 72
Mary A Bradford 42
Kathleen M Hall 43



Kathleen May Hall
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Kathleen May Hall
Death Age: 85
Birth Date: 14 Jan 1896 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration Date: Jul 1981[Aug 1981] [Sep 1981]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Weymouth
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume: 23
Page: 0879

Terence

If you wish to be accurate, buy some certs ;-) ;-) ;-)

I realise that Gina is with Frank and Kathleen Sivyer in 1939, and that Frank's bride is Kathleen M Hall at marriage.

Do you have the marriage cert, Terence, to see Kathleen's full name (if given), and her father's name?

You say that Kathleen May (May Kathleen) was born 1896 (and she was) - but 1939 says 31 March 1892.

I know YOBs are often wrong in the 1939 Register - but if correct, that would fit with Kate Marion's birth registered in A/M/J quarter of 1892.

May Kathleen's birth was registered in J/F/M quarter of 1896.
She was baptised 17 March 1896, so not born 31 March.
It's very unusual for the whole date to be wrong in 1939, though the year often is.

I'm wondering if Kate Marion had begun calling herself Kathleen at some point between 1921 and 1925. Maybe sounding more grown up?


ADDED:

Deaths Mar 1979 (>99%)
SIVYER KATHLEEN MARION 31MR1892 CROYDON 11 2413

I think that proves that Gina's mother was Kate Marion Hall 1892, sister of Mabel Mary Hall who married Herbert Manning - and not May Kathleen Hall 1896.

Presumably Mabel brought Gina up and she took the name Manning.
Kate called herself Kathleen, and married Frank Sivyer.

Kate Marion Hall’s birth was registered in 1892 in Godstone district

Terence -
is the information that Kathleen May was Gina's mother from the birth cert, or just from an Ancestry tree?

Just wondering about the middle name Marion, which both Gina and Kate Hall have.

If the info re Gina's mother is only from a tree - perhaps Kate Marion is her mother, and not Kathleen May??

Can't see Kate anywhere after 1921. No obvious marriage or death, and not in 1939.

ADDED:

Hmmm - none of the public Ancestry trees on which Gina appears names her mother .

And none of the public Ancestry trees with Kate Marion has any info about a marriage or death.

Kathleen May (May Kathleen) is on one public tree, but only as an un-named (private) daughter of her named parents.

Births of four of the Manning/Hall children who are on the 1921 census were posted at 10:00.

Parents' marriage already posted.

But as already said - I don't see an obvious relationship between their mother Mabel Mary (nee Hall) and Kathleen, who had different fathers who were not brothers.

Kate Marion Hall (on Shirley's posting of 1921 census) was a sister of Mabel Mary:

Kate Marion Hall
in the Surrey, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1917
Name: Kate Marion Hall
Baptism Date: 19 Jul 1892
Baptism Place: Caterham, St Mary, Surrey, England
Parish as it Appears: Caterham
Father: Samuel John Hall
Mother: Catherine Hall

So the manning family are connected to the Hall family !

Birth
MANNING, PERCY THOMAS HALL
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 242



Marriages Dec 1908
HALL Mabel Mary Croydon 2a 637

MANNING Herbert Croydon 2a 657

Page nos differ !

Edit this has been posted before but my iPad didn’t update ! :-(

Maybe Kathleen left Gina with the manning family to look after


Gina Hall in 1921
1921 Census Of England & Wales
45 Cromwell Road, Caterham, Surrey, England
Household members (10 people)
Copy to clipboard
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
Elizabeth Manning Head Female 1861 60 Boston, Lincolnshire, England Laundress L Lewen Victoria Laundry Caterham Surrey
Mabel Mary Manning Daughter-in-law Female 1885 36 Caterham, Surrey, England Home Duties -
Herbert Manning Grandson Male 1908 12 Kenley, Surrey, England - -
Percy Thomas Manning Grandson Male 1910 10 Purley, Surrey, England - -
Grace Manning Granddaughter Female 1912 9 Purley, Surrey, England - -
Dorothy Ada Manning Granddaughter Female 1914 6 Caterham, Surrey, England - -
Kate Marion Hall Visitor Female 1894 27 Caterham, Surrey, England General Domestic Servant Private Out Of Work
Elizabeth Wilford Lodger Female 1851 70 London, London, England General Domestic Servant Private
Gina Hall Boarder Female 1917 4 Croydon, Surrey, England - -
Percy Thomas Manning Son Male 1888 33 Hythe, Kent, England General Labourer F G Minter Builder & Contractor

She was out of work but could have found live in employment later

I know my mum went into live in domestic service in the 20,s !

HALL, STEWART SCOTT SCOTT
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 7

Marriages Jun 1893 (>99%)
Hall Alfred Charles Hampstead 1a 1267
Scott Julia Richmond Hampstead 1a 1267


Looks like she was reg as May Kathleen

HALL, MAY KATHLEEN SCOTT
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in EPSOM Volume 02A Page 7


1911 census states parents married 18 years and only 2 children born both still living

They had different fathers, who weren't brothers:

Mabel Mary Hall
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Mabel Mary Hall
Gender: Female
Age: 5
Relationship: Daughter
Birth Year: 1886
Father:
Samuel John Hall
Mother:
Catherine Hall
Birth Place: Caterham, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Caterham
Ecclesiastical parish: Caterham
Residence Place: Caterham, Caterham, Surrey, England
Registration district: Godstone
Sub registration district: Godstone
ED, Institution or Vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Piece: 582
Folio: 55
Household Members Age Relationship
Samuel John Hall 32 Head - Stonehouse, Devon
Catherine Hall 29 Wife
Sidney Gev Hall 6 Son
Mabel Mary Hall 5 Daughter
Ada Florence Hall 2 Daughter
Amy Maude Hall 1 Daughter
Edgar Denis Hall Under 1/12 Son



Kathleen May Hall
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Kathleen May Hall
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sutton, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Sutton
Country: England
Street Address: Oakbank, Grange Rd Sutton, Surrey
Marital status: Single
Occupation: School
Registration District Number: 31
Sub-registration District: Carshalton
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Piece: 2930
Household Members:
Name Age
Alfred Charles Hall 47 - Lambeth
Julia Richmond Hall 39
Kathleen May Hall 15
Stewart Scott Hall 6
Jessie Dawson 25
Louisa Longhorn 18

So far, I don't see any obvious relationship between Gina's mother Kathleen May Hall and Mabel Mary Hall - but I assume there is one.

Herbert Manning
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Herbert Manning
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hythe, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Croydon
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Purley Downs Road, Purley
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 3
Estimated Marriage Year: 1908
Occupation: Painter House
Registration District Number: 39
Sub-registration District: South Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 38
Piece: 3319
Household Members:
Name Age
Herbert Manning 24
Mabel Mary Manning 25
Herbert Sidney Manning 2
Percy Thomas Manning 7/12
Elizabeth Manning 50


Herbert Manning
in the UK, Soldiers Died in the Great War, 1914-1919
Name: Herbert Manning
Birth Place: Hythe, Kent
Residence: Upper Caterham, Surrey
Death Date: 26 Mar 1918
Death Place: France and Flanders
Enlistment Place: Croydon, Surrey
Rank: C.S.M.
Regiment: Queen's (Royal West Surrey) Regiment
Battalion: 10th Battalion
Regimental Number: G/9642
Type of Casualty: Killed in action
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

1939 for some of the people in the 1921 records posted by ErikaH - revealing some of the relationships , or at least marital status:

Dorothy A Manning
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Dorothy A Manning
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Single <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date: 1 Sep 1914
Residence Date: 1939
Address: 45 Cromwell Road
Residence Place: Caterham and Warlingham, Surrey, England
Occupation: Domestic Servant
Line Number: 34
Schedule Number: 264
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: Dmbj
Borough: Caterham and Warlingham
Registration district: 34/2
Household Members Age
Dorothy A Manning 25
Grace Fenwick 27 - married - 17 March 1912 [ Grace Manning in 1921 record ]
This record is officially closed.
Percy T Manning 51 - SINGLE - 25 June 1888
Mabel M Manning 54 - WIDOW - 8 June 1885
Herbert S Manning 31 - SINGLE - 17 Nov 1908
Percy T Manning Jr 29 - SINGLE - 13 Aug 1910


Births:

MANNING, PERCY THOMAS mmn HALL
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 242

MANNING, HERBERT SYDNEY mmn HALL
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 235

MANNING, GRACE mmn HALL
GRO Reference: 1912 J Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 462

MANNING, DOROTHY ADA mmn HALL
GRO Reference: 1914 D Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 378

MANNING, PERCY THOMAS mmn WAITE
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in ELHAM Volume 02A Page 985




Re Mabel M Manning, widow -

??
HALL, MABEL MARY mmn HOLMAN
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 180

Marriages Dec 1908 (>99%)
MANNING Herbert Croydon 2a 657

Marriages Dec 1908
HALL Mabel Mary Croydon 2a 637 [ 657 mistranscribed ??]


Husband's birth:
MANNING, HERBERT mmn WAITE
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in ELHAM Volume 02A Page 1028

Not sure how you can possibly add the 1921 info I posted ‘to a file’ without determining the relationships involved, which can only be ascertained by looking at the original image

Son Alan Ives is still living in Croydon to 2019 !

Thank you again ErikaH for more information re Gina.
I will add this to that particular file.
I have only briefly searched the 1921 census.
As you have seen, I'm trying to add to the beginning of my tree.

Kind regards.

Terence.

Gina HALL born 1917 is on the 1921 census on FMP

You can see all the info on the record by paying for it. One does not have to be a subscriber to the website to pay for 1921 info.

These are the others in the household
Found by manipulation - NOT payment

Elizabeth
Wilford
1851
London, London, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Kate Marion
Hall
1894
Caterham, Surrey, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Dorothy Ada
Manning
1914
Caterham, Surrey, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Elizabeth
Manning
1861
Boston, Lincolnshire, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Grace
Manning
1912
Purley, Surrey, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Herbert
Manning
1908
Kenley, Surrey, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Mabel Mary
Manning
1885
Caterham, Surrey, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey
Percy Thomas
Manning
1888
Hythe, Kent, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Percy Thomas
Manning
1910
Purley, Surrey, England
Caterham
Godstone
Surrey

Hi all and thankyou for your comments. I wondered about alterations on the 1939 Register, and thought later additions should be explained.
I had not searched for Gina's children until now, and found only Alan S Ives, born JAS1947, Croydon 5a 227. MMN only Manning! The family may have moved away after Alan and may have had more children. But I am not concerned about that at this time.
Many thanks again to all you 'helpers'. Without you, we would be left wondering about final answers.

Terence Meads. South Australia.

Gina used Manning as the maiden name on her child's birth registration.