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John
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15 Jun 2020 19:19 |
Hi again, sorry its a long time to respond, I managed to work out what to do, although there is a general name for the tree there is a 'user name' that is not always shown unless they have more than one tree. However, I found a way to it. At the moment I am trying to find a marriage record of couple: Thomas Miller and Isabella Walker (1833). I have a marriage record for Thomas Miller in 1863 Cumberland Whitehaven 10b 668, line 23 but there is no Bride shown. I cannot find a similar record for the bride so cant confirm it as correct but it does show the child Sarah Ann Miller married to Samuel Joseph Ramsden in other records for both - eg census. Any ideas how I can confirm apart from ordering a certificate?
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2020 19:23 |
Thomas Miller married Ann Wilds
Name Thomas Miller Gender Male Marriage Date 4 Jan 1863 Marriage Place Harrington, Cumberland, England Spouse Ann Wilds
Click on the page number to see others on the page
If you think he married Isabella Walker, put BOTH names in when searching on freebmd
Look on the GRO index for the birth of Sarah Ann - you will know when it was from the census. MMN will be on the record -IF it was registered
Make yourself familiar with searching on the various free sites
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 20:29 |
From FamilySearch:
Thomas Miller in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Thomas Miller Gender: Male Marriage Date: 4 Jan 1863 Marriage Place: Harrington, Cumberland, England Spouse: Ann Wilds FHL Film Number: 1472081
From Ancestry:
Saml Joseph Ramsden in the 1901 England Census Name: Saml Joseph Ramsden Age: 39 Estimated birth year: abt 1862 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Spouse: Sarah Annie Ramsden Birth Place: Barnard Castle, Durham, England Civil Parish: Howden Ecclesiastical parish: Howden Town: Howden County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address: Registration district: Howden Sub-registration district: Howden ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: Piece: 4458 Folio: 5 Page Number: 2 Household schedule number: 9 Household Members: Name Age Saml Joseph Ramsden 39 Sarah Annie Ramsden 33 - Kendall Isabella Ramsden 12
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 21:12 |
However, the Miller/Wilds family isn't the one you're interested in!
If I'm reading your post correctly, it's Isabella Walker (1833)'s marriage you're interested in.
This can't be the family you mean,though, unless Isabella's name wasn't Walker.
Sarah Ann Miller in the 1881 England Census Name: Sarah Ann Miller Age: 14 Estimated birth year: abt 1867 Relationship to Head: Daughter Father: Thomas Miller Mother: Isabella Miller Gender: Female Where born: Kendal, Westmorland, England Civil Parish: Barrow in Furness County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 44 St Vincent St Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Scholar Registration district: Barrow In Furness ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: Piece: 4286 Folio: 69 Page Number: 40 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Miller 46 Isabella Miller 48 Sarah Ann Miller 14 John Wm. Miller 9 Alexander Wiseley 21 Joseph Clarke 22 Josiah Earnshaw 35
MILLER, SARAH ANN mms ALLEN GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 612
MILLER, JOHN WILLIAM mms ALLEN GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in ULVERSTON Volume 08E Page 757
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2020 21:32 |
Sarah Anne Miller m. Ramsden in 1887
FMP shows I’ve accessed 1891 before, so no doubt it’s on here somewhere, among the plethora of info
Sarah was born in Kendal c1867, which fits with info above.
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 21:36 |
John, where did you get the name Isabella Walker?
The Sarah with mms Allen is the only Sarah Miller registered in Kendal RD in 1867 +/-1 In fact, she's the only one in the whole of Cumberland and Westmorland North. .
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 21:50 |
Isabella and Sarah in 1871, without Thomas:
Sarah Ann Millar in the 1871 England Census Name: Sarah Ann Millar Age: 4 Estimated birth year: 1867 Relation: Daughter Gender: Female Where born: Kendal Westmorland England Civil Parish: Kendal Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Kendal County/Island: Westmorland Country: England Registration district: Kendal Sub-registration district: Kendal ED, institution, or vessel: 12 Household schedule number: 180 Piece: 5287 Folio: 56 Page Number: 34 Household Members: Name Age Isabella Millar 38 - married Sarah Ann Millar 4 William Cartner 26 - lodger
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 22:30 |
This is the only marriage I can find of a Thomas Miller and an Isabella Allen, 1861-71.
. Thomas Scott Elgin Miller in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932 Name: Thomas Scott Elgin Miller [ smith ] Gender: Male Record Type: Marriage Marriage Date: 27 Jul 1862 Marriage Place: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, Lambeth, England Father: George Miller - spinner Spouse: Isabella Allan [ father: Cuthbert Allan, spinner ] Register Type: Parish Register
This could be his death, which would fit Sarah's father's age:
Deaths Mar 1915 (>99%) Miller Thomas S E 80 Lancaster 8e 1143
But there's no sign of those middle names in censuses, and why would they marry in London? Isabella (Sarah's mother) was born in Kendal area, per all the censuses - Skelsmergh (near Kendal) in one of them.
ADDED:
Yes, the Lambeth marriage appears to be the right one - although Cuthbert's an agricultural labourer in 1841 and 1851 , and Thomas is a warehouseman/porter/similar in censuses rather than a smith -
Bella Allan in the 1841 England Census Name: Bella Allan Age: 9 Estimated birth year: abt 1832 Gender: Female Where born: Westmorland, England Civil Parish: Burton in Kendal Hundred: Kendal County/Island: Westmorland Country: England Street address: Occupation: View image Registration district: Kendal Sub-registration district: Milnthorpe Neighbors: Piece: 1159 Book: 15 Folio: 10 Page Number: 14 Household Members: Name Age Curthberth Allan 40 Margret Allan 40 Jno Allan 15 Mary Allan 15 Mathew Allan 14 William Allan 11 Bella Allan 9 Ann Allan 7 George Allan 4 Sarah Allan 1
Cuthbert Allen in the 1851 England Census Name: Cuthbert Allen Age: 52 Estimated birth year: abt 1799 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Margret Allen Gender: Male Where born: Grisdel, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Scalthwaiterigg County/Island: Westmorland Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Kendal Sub-registration district: Ambleside ED, institution, or vessel: 9a Neighbors: Household schedule number: 35 Piece: 2441 Folio: 323 Page Number: 10 Household Members: Name Age Cuthbert Allen 52 Margret Allen 55 William Allen 21 Bella Allen 18 - Skelsmergh <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ann Allen 16 George Allen 14 Sarah Allen 10 [and several lodgers ]
Deaths of parents:
ALLEN, MARGARET 57 GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 359
ALLEN, CUTHBERT 55 GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 359
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 22:52 |
Thomas and Isabella in 1891 with a Ramsden grand-daughter:
Isabella Miller in the 1891 England Census Name: Isabella Miller Gender: Female Age: 58 Relationship: Wife Birth Year: 1833 Spouse: Thomas Miller Child: John W Miller Birth Place: Scaltwaterrigg, Westmorland, England Civil Parish: Ulverston Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Residence Place: Ulverston, Ulverston, Lancashire, England Registration district: Ulverston Sub registration district: Ulverston ED, Institution or Vessel: 5 Neighbors: Piece: 3476 Folio: 108 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Miller 56 - born Scotland (also born Scotland in other censuses ), general labourer Isabella Miller 58 John W Miller 19 Isabella Ramsden 3 - Barrow, Lancs.
RAMSDEN, ISABELLA mms MILLER GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 835
No sign of Thomas's birth or baptism with father George. Nor with middle names Scott Elgin.
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ArgyllGran
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15 Jun 2020 23:08 |
Isabella and Sarah are in Kendal in 1871 - posted earlier.
Possibly Thomas still in London?:
Thomas Miller in the 1871 England Census Name: Thomas Miller Age: 36 Estimated birth year: 1835 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: Wapping Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Stepney Sub-registration district: Shadwell ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Household schedule number: 52 Piece: 545 Folio: 103 Page Number: 15 Household Members: Name Age James Pain 49 Charlotte Pain 38 Richard Pain 12 Charles Pain 11 Elizabeth Pain 9 Elizabeth Mustin 77 Maryann Grady 17 Thomas Miller 36 - labourer in tea warehouse
Possibly also in 1861 -? But it's a very common name.
Thomas Miller in the 1861 England Census Name: Thomas Miller Age: 26 Estimated birth year: 1835 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Scotland Civil Parish: Holborn St George the Martyr Ecclesiastical parish: St George the Martyr County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Holborn Sub-registration district: St George the Martyr and St Andrew Western ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: Household schedule number: 261 Piece: 182 Folio: 29 Page Number: 57 Household Members: Name Age William Newman 34 Elizabeth Newman 48 Lavina Sarah Newman 9 John Wickenden 23 Thomas Miller 26 - porter John Dallen 24 Clara Dallen 23 Ann Maria Howell 40 John Smith 42 W Mason 60
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ArgyllGran
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16 Jun 2020 11:23 |
Re Isabella's apparent marriage in 1862 in Lambeth -
both her parents died in the first quarter of 1853.
The children are all (as far as I can find) scattered after that to various employers and lodgings.
In 1861 there's an Isabella Allen, born 1832 Kendal, servant in Kirkby Stephen. However, I'm not sure that's your Isabella, as there's also an Isabella Allen, 1832 Kendal, who is a servant in Askrigg in 1851 - when the Isabella who married Thomas is at home with her parents.
Maybe your Isabella was working in London in 1861, and met Thomas there? I don't see her there on the 1861 census, but maybe she only moved there after the census date. Who knows?!
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