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Re Isabella's apparent marriage in 1862 in Lambeth -

both her parents died in the first quarter of 1853.

The children are all (as far as I can find) scattered after that to various employers and lodgings.

In 1861 there's an Isabella Allen, born 1832 Kendal, servant in Kirkby Stephen.
However, I'm not sure that's your Isabella, as there's also an Isabella Allen, 1832 Kendal, who is a servant in Askrigg in 1851 - when the Isabella who married Thomas is at home with her parents.

Maybe your Isabella was working in London in 1861, and met Thomas there?
I don't see her there on the 1861 census, but maybe she only moved there after the census date.
Who knows?!

Isabella and Sarah are in Kendal in 1871 - posted earlier.

Possibly Thomas still in London?:


Thomas Miller
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Thomas Miller
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: 1835
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Wapping
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Stepney
Sub-registration district: Shadwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 52
Piece: 545
Folio: 103
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
James Pain 49
Charlotte Pain 38
Richard Pain 12
Charles Pain 11
Elizabeth Pain 9
Elizabeth Mustin 77
Maryann Grady 17
Thomas Miller 36 - labourer in tea warehouse


Possibly also in 1861 -? But it's a very common name.

Thomas Miller
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Thomas Miller
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: 1835
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Holborn St George the Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: St George the Martyr and St Andrew Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 261
Piece: 182
Folio: 29
Page Number: 57
Household Members:
Name Age
William Newman 34
Elizabeth Newman 48
Lavina Sarah Newman 9
John Wickenden 23
Thomas Miller 26 - porter
John Dallen 24
Clara Dallen 23
Ann Maria Howell 40
John Smith 42
W Mason 60

Thomas and Isabella in 1891 with a Ramsden grand-daughter:

Isabella Miller
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Isabella Miller
Gender: Female
Age: 58
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1833
Spouse: Thomas Miller
Child: John W Miller
Birth Place: Scaltwaterrigg, Westmorland, England
Civil Parish: Ulverston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Residence Place: Ulverston, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Registration district: Ulverston
Sub registration district: Ulverston
ED, Institution or Vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 3476
Folio: 108
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Miller 56 - born Scotland (also born Scotland in other censuses ), general labourer
Isabella Miller 58
John W Miller 19
Isabella Ramsden 3 - Barrow, Lancs.


RAMSDEN, ISABELLA mms MILLER
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 835



No sign of Thomas's birth or baptism with father George. Nor with middle names Scott Elgin.

This is the only marriage I can find of a Thomas Miller and an Isabella Allen, 1861-71.



. Thomas Scott Elgin Miller
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1932
Name: Thomas Scott Elgin Miller [ smith ]
Gender: Male
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 27 Jul 1862
Marriage Place: St John the Evangelist, Lambeth, Lambeth, England
Father: George Miller - spinner
Spouse: Isabella Allan [ father: Cuthbert Allan, spinner ]
Register Type: Parish Register

This could be his death, which would fit Sarah's father's age:

Deaths Mar 1915 (>99%)
Miller Thomas S E 80 Lancaster 8e 1143

But there's no sign of those middle names in censuses, and why would they marry in London? Isabella (Sarah's mother) was born in Kendal area, per all the censuses - Skelsmergh (near Kendal) in one of them.


ADDED:

Yes, the Lambeth marriage appears to be the right one - although Cuthbert's an agricultural labourer in 1841 and 1851 , and Thomas is a warehouseman/porter/similar in censuses rather than a smith -

Bella Allan
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Bella Allan
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Gender: Female
Where born: Westmorland, England
Civil Parish: Burton in Kendal
Hundred: Kendal
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Kendal
Sub-registration district: Milnthorpe
Neighbors:
Piece: 1159
Book: 15
Folio: 10
Page Number: 14
Household Members:
Name Age
Curthberth Allan 40
Margret Allan 40
Jno Allan 15
Mary Allan 15
Mathew Allan 14
William Allan 11
Bella Allan 9
Ann Allan 7
George Allan 4
Sarah Allan 1


Cuthbert Allen
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Cuthbert Allen
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1799
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Margret Allen
Gender: Male
Where born: Grisdel, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Scalthwaiterigg
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Kendal
Sub-registration district: Ambleside
ED, institution, or vessel: 9a
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 35
Piece: 2441
Folio: 323
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Cuthbert Allen 52
Margret Allen 55
William Allen 21
Bella Allen 18 - Skelsmergh <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Ann Allen 16
George Allen 14
Sarah Allen 10
[and several lodgers ]



Deaths of parents:

ALLEN, MARGARET 57
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 359

ALLEN, CUTHBERT 55
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 359

Isabella and Sarah in 1871, without Thomas:

Sarah Ann Millar
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Sarah Ann Millar
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: 1867
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Kendal Westmorland England
Civil Parish: Kendal
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Kendal
County/Island: Westmorland
Country: England
Registration district: Kendal
Sub-registration district: Kendal
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Household schedule number: 180
Piece: 5287
Folio: 56
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Isabella Millar 38 - married
Sarah Ann Millar 4
William Cartner 26 - lodger

John, where did you get the name Isabella Walker?

The Sarah with mms Allen is the only Sarah Miller registered in Kendal RD in 1867 +/-1
In fact, she's the only one in the whole of Cumberland and Westmorland North.
.

Sarah Anne Miller m. Ramsden in 1887

FMP shows I’ve accessed 1891 before, so no doubt it’s on here somewhere, among the plethora of info

Sarah was born in Kendal c1867, which fits with info above.

However, the Miller/Wilds family isn't the one you're interested in!

If I'm reading your post correctly, it's Isabella Walker (1833)'s marriage you're interested in.

This can't be the family you mean,though, unless Isabella's name wasn't Walker.

Sarah Ann Miller
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Sarah Ann Miller
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1867
Relationship to Head: Daughter
Father: Thomas Miller
Mother: Isabella Miller
Gender: Female
Where born: Kendal, Westmorland, England
Civil Parish: Barrow in Furness
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 44 St Vincent St
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Barrow In Furness
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 4286
Folio: 69
Page Number: 40
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Miller 46
Isabella Miller 48
Sarah Ann Miller 14
John Wm. Miller 9
Alexander Wiseley 21
Joseph Clarke 22
Josiah Earnshaw 35



MILLER, SARAH ANN mms ALLEN
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in KENDAL Volume 10B Page 612

MILLER, JOHN WILLIAM mms ALLEN
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in ULVERSTON Volume 08E Page 757

From FamilySearch:

Thomas Miller
in the England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973
Name: Thomas Miller
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 4 Jan 1863
Marriage Place: Harrington, Cumberland, England
Spouse: Ann Wilds
FHL Film Number: 1472081


From Ancestry:

Saml Joseph Ramsden
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Saml Joseph Ramsden
Age: 39
Estimated birth year: abt 1862
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Sarah Annie Ramsden
Birth Place: Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Civil Parish: Howden
Ecclesiastical parish: Howden
Town: Howden
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Howden
Sub-registration district: Howden
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors:
Piece: 4458
Folio: 5
Page Number: 2
Household schedule number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Saml Joseph Ramsden 39
Sarah Annie Ramsden 33 - Kendall
Isabella Ramsden 12

Thomas Miller married Ann Wilds

Name Thomas Miller
Gender Male
Marriage Date 4 Jan 1863
Marriage Place Harrington, Cumberland, England
Spouse Ann Wilds

Click on the page number to see others on the page

If you think he married Isabella Walker, put BOTH names in when searching on freebmd

Look on the GRO index for the birth of Sarah Ann - you will know when it was from the census. MMN will be on the record -IF it was registered

Make yourself familiar with searching on the various free sites

Hi again, sorry its a long time to respond, I managed to work out what to do, although there is a general name for the tree there is a 'user name' that is not always shown unless they have more than one tree. However, I found a way to it.
At the moment I am trying to find a marriage record of couple: Thomas Miller and Isabella Walker (1833). I have a marriage record for Thomas Miller in 1863 Cumberland Whitehaven 10b 668, line 23 but there is no Bride shown. I cannot find a similar record for the bride so cant confirm it as correct but it does show the child Sarah Ann Miller married to Samuel Joseph Ramsden in other records for both - eg census. Any ideas how I can confirm apart from ordering a certificate?

As you mention Ancestry, do you mean you are trying to share your Ancestry tree with another Ancestry user?

Or have I misunderstood what you're saying?

Instructions here for sharing trees on Ancestry:

https://support.ancestry.co.uk/s/article/Sharing-a-Family-Tree

My tree is not on Ancestry, so I have no personal experience of sharing a tree with anyone on that site.

You say you've messaged him - how did you do that if you don't have his user name or email?


To contact a tree owner on Ancestry:
An Ancestry tree owner's user name is at the top of any page of the tree (if the tree is public).
You'll see the name of the tree, then "Tree Search", and then the owner's user name.
Click on the user name and send a message.


If the tree is private, when you attempt to open the tree you'll receive a message saying "X has chosen not to make this tree publicly viewable . . . . "
Click on the user name (ie - X - or whatever it might be) and send a message.

Hi again, long time since we chatted.
I notice that you are in Ancestry and may be able to help with an issue as I cant find the answer on their help site.
I am trying to share my tree with a user with the same family (Christopher Lunn). Problem is I do not have his email and cannot find his 'user name' I can see user names on some contacts and have contacted, but none on his I have messaged but no reply so am stuck. I don't understand why I cant see a user name, cant find him using his displayed name. The reason I am sharing is in the hope he will get back similarly as I cant see the 'live' people on his site at present.
Can you help.
John :-)

If you look at Elizabeth Ann's marriage on Ancestry (do you have access to Ancestry? I can't remember, and am not trawling back through all 6 pages of this thread!), you'll see the 1911 census as a "suggested record" on the right, and that shows Elizabeth and Andrew together.

Similarly, if you look at Lina Haigh, you'll see later records for her as Lina Peck, with husband Edward..

Hi again, just looked at other trees, been there before and contacted one who is no longer a member and couldnt help. The other one is me!! I used my known (middle) name of Clive :) :)

To find which of two people anyone married, look for the births of possible children. If before late 1911, use the GRO index. If after 1911, use freebmd

Of course, that doesn’t work if they remained childless, or the woman had been married before.

Thanks for that ArgyllGran, I have been there before but couldnt remember how :)
I have now found George A Watson's father's record Andrew Smithh Watson and the marriage to Elizabeth Ann Birkinshaw. Got reports on both which agree but it says 2 names as possibility so doesn't give a full record with both. Edward Peck is the other member on Elizabeth Ann's and Lina Haigh on Andrew's. I tried the different combinations each way and it still gave me two options!
I have ordered a marriage cert in the hope that will confirm.

You can't look at the other tree unless the owner gives you permission.

Look at "Search all member trees" under "Search" at top right of this page.

Enter : Samuel Ramsden 1861, and click Search.

You'll see two tree owners appear to have him on their trees, though with differing birthplaces - Clive and Amanda.

Click on "Find out more" beside their names, and send them each a message explaining your interest.

If you're lucky, and they read your message, they may (or may not) decide to let you see their tree, in which case you'll receive an email from GR telling you so.

If they do give permission, then you look at your tree on GR (which you don't have yet ?), and click on "View other trees" just below your own name at the top of the page.
Then click "Trees shared with me" and select the relevant tree.

Can you remind me please where to find this other family tree. I have a record of Samuel J 1862, I know that to be correct as I have a matching death cert and know the details to be true as I was there. It shows he was on another tree but when I click on it I get no records there, I thought maybe it was referring to my tree?

Thanks I will look for him - not noticed.
My family tree is on here, part of the whole thing that's there or is there something else I should do?