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John has Samuel's wife's surname as Ramsden in his tree

This is one of their daughters

RAMSDEN, FLORENCE ANNIE MILLER
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in BARNSLEY Volume 09C Page 242

Ergo - the marriage

Marriages Jun 1887 (>99%)
MILLER Sarah Anne Whitehaven 10b 899
Ramsden Samuel Joseph Whitehaven 10b 899

And their first-born

RAMSDEN, ISABELLA MILLER
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 835

Further daughters

RAMSDEN, ALICE ANNIE MILLER
GRO Reference: 1894 M Quarter in ULVERSTON Volume 08E Page 775
Deaths Sep 1894 (>99%)
Ramsden Alice Ann 0 Ulverston 8e 444b
RAMSDEN, EMILY MILLER
GRO Reference: 1890 M Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS Volume 08E Page 846
Deaths Sep 1894 (>99%)
Ramsden Emily 4 Ulverston 8e 445

A son

RAMSDEN, THOMAS SAMUEL MILLER
GRO Reference: 1891 S Quarter in ULVERSTON Volume 08E Page 790
Deaths Jun 1893 (>99%)
Ramsden Thomas Samuel 1 Ulverston 8e 559

According to 1911, they'd had 7 children,of whom 5 had died

One more

RAMSDEN, MARGARET ANNIE MILLER
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in COCKERMOUTH Volume 10B Page 517
Deaths Sep 1890 (>99%)
Ramsden Margaret Annie 1 Cockermouth 10b 368

1891
John Street, Crosscanonby, Cockermouth, Cumberland, England
Samuel J Ramsden Head Married Male 29 1862 Singers Sewing Machine Agent Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Sarah A Ramsden Wife Married Female 24 1867 - Kendal, Westmorland, England
Emily Ramsden Daughter Single Female 1 1890 - Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England



1891 for the eldest child

Market Street, Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Thomas Miller Head Married Male 56 1835 Ironmongers Warehouseman Scotland
Isabella Miller Wife Married Female 58 1833 - Westmorland, England
John W Miller Son Single Male 19 1872 Hotel Boots Domestic Servant Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England
Isabella Ramsden Granddaughter - Female 3 1888 - Barrow in Furness, Lancashire, England

One birth/death missing - have to leave this now

December 30th was a Saturday in 1950.

"December 1950 was the coldest December since 1890"
https://tinyurl.com/sf2np8p

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twocommunity/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12115

https://www.netweather.tv/weather-forecasts/uk/winter/winter-history

I don't know if this snippet is any help

"Unfortunately between the 1950’s and 1960’s the congregations began to drop. Not only in the Primitive Methodists but right across all the established religions. The Primitive and Wesleyan Methodists had already amalgamated in the early 1930’s so the decision was made that it was time to come together. The Wesleyan Church in Middle Street was sold and the Avenue Church was demolished to make way for the new Consett Methodist Church. The initial stone laying took place in September 1970 and the all new modern church opened on 5th December 1970 just 2 months later."

possibility???

Marriages Mar 1919 (>99%)
Williams Mabel Bell Lanchester 10a 594

Births Dec 1923 (>99%)
Bell Irene Williams S.Shields 10a 1448

Marriages Dec 1950 (>99%)
Bell Irene Wilson S.Shields 1a 1751

Also if Helen was 18 in June 1951 late 1950 would be about when sh was a applying to th Guildhall School

Re the church (to corroborate LancashireAnn's post)-

part of a PM from John:

"You will see a church mentioned in the letter, I believe this to be the Primitive Methodist church in Consett, which has since been re-built"

That's great!! Thanks very much, I will see what I can get into my Tree as soon as I can and then start finding the certificates relating to stuff.

I just realised I have a link to a web page which started me on revisiting this project. It was from a blog from a website called Narkive a lady who chose to be anonymous.
Here is the link
https://soc.genealogy.britain.narkive.com/DS013LEE/gg-grandfather-s-book-brick-wall-happy-ending-story.
She mentions here in her quest to find Samuel Ramsden - the only part of the puzzle that I had at that time, but it was 15 years old and no longer available. I do also have remnants of a small booklet he wrote of poems and photos all related to various parts of Consett, and a booklet on plamistry! 'The Hand and its Lessons' It would be good when I can share these with relevant folk.

ErikaH
That is most enlightening re Florence Milller.
I was briefly introduced to 'Auntie Florrie' when I was 9. I often wondered where she fitted in. I also remember a young Allan who gt grandad was going to leave his signet ring to. A bit challenging to know which Allan that might be :)

Thanks so much for all your help!!

ErikaH
That is most enlightening re Florence Milller.
I was briefly introduced to 'Auntie Florrie' when I was 9. I often wondered where she fitted in. I also remember a young Allan who gt grandad was going to leave his signet ring to. A bit challenging to know which Allan that might be :)

Thanks so much for all your help!!

There is no Florence Miller in the info I posted

There is a Florence Ramsden whose mother’s maiden name was Miller. You have her in your tree, but you’ve recorded her mother’s name as Ramsden, which is incorrect.

It is vital to record accurate info

Hi ErikaH again.
I am puzzled now as you show Florence as married to Samuel in 1887 - did Samuels first wife die and he remarried do you think? I think I shared my tree with you which shows him married to Sarah Annie.
My only other thought - was her mother not actually married to Samue (an affair??)

No John , I DO NOT show a Florence Miller anywhere

The marriage is of Samuel Joseph Ramsden and SARAH ANNE Miller, who you have in your tree as Sarah RAMSDEN. This needs to be rectified if you are to have an accurate tree.

Please read and evaluate all of the info about this couple and their children, of whom you have recorded in your tree only the ones who survived

Many thanks, I realise what has happened now?

Years after 1900 when Dec 30 was a Sat
AAA-Spacer-AA 1905
1911 1916 1922 1933
1939 1944 1950 1961
1967 1972 1978 1989
1995 2000 2006 2017 etc

A normal year is 52w + 1 day
A leap year is 52w + 2 day
7 x 4 = 28
Usually, there's a 28 year cucle which lasts for 100 y between XY00 and XY99
This time, since 2000 was a leap year (divisible by 400), the cycle lasts for 200 y before the 2100 reset.

Thanks for your efforts there ngnv I hope to make use of that!! :-)

Hi again ErikaH.
We seem to have a problem here, I think there is maybe another Samuel Joseph or the record is showing the father rather than the husband.
I have a census record from GU clearly showing that in 1911 Samuel lived at 2 |Myndon Street in Lancaster with his daughter Florence Annie aged 8 (born 1903) and his wife Sarah Anne born (1868) years of marriage 23 (therefore married 1888).
This also fits with the fact that I met Florence - my mothers aunt around 1950.
I know I have miss named Samuels wife as Ramsden at present as I don't yet have her mothers name.

You don’t need her MOTHER’S name - you put SARAH’s maiden name in your tree She was MILLER.
The marriage record is in my post
Please read it carefully..............

Re December 30th 1950 being a Saturday:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_1950

AG - You're right. I've corrected the erroneous column in my table

So many thanks to all who have helped so far, especially the patience of ArgyllGran and ErikaH. I have now loaded much of my stuff into my tree - although some way to go with dates and deaths etc. The letter seems to have been from Sarah and 'Ramsden' at Fern Cottage which I have now found a picture of. They latterly moved to Sniperley Hall (and farm) which now seems to be an Hotel, although I see a redevelopment happened in 2018 so dreading what that might be - unless that was when the hotel conversion was done. So thankyou again!! :-)

Name: Florence Annie Ramsden
Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1902
Baptism Date: 11 Feb 1903
Baptism Place: Barnsley, St John the Baptist, Yorkshire, England
Father: Samuel Joseph Ramsden
Mother: Sarah Annie Ramsden


Name: Thomas Samuel Ramsden
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 1 Jun 1891
Baptism Date: 5 Jul 1891
Baptism Place: Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Father: Samuel Joseph Ramsden
Mother: Sarah Ann Ramsden

Name: Emily Ramsden
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 9 Jan 1890
Baptism Date: 5 Jul 1891
Baptism Place: Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Father: Samuel Joseph Ramsden
Mother: Sarah Ann Ramsden