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I'm trying to trace the mother of Florence Emma Lee 1894-1973, name on birth certificate is Emma (formally) Hinton. Cannot find a marriage cert to Henry Lee. It has been said in the family she was Irish and an opera singer. any help and guidance would be appreciated.

Is this "your" family so we have some idea of where to look

England, Births & Baptisms 1538-1975 Transcription

First name(s) Florence Emma
Last name Lee
Gender Female
Birth year 1894
Birth place -
Baptism year 1894
Baptism date 05 Aug 1894
Residence Walworth, Surrey, England
Place Walworth
County Surrey
Country England
Father's first name(s) Henry
Father's last name Lee
Father's name note Packer <<<< Occupation showing on original
Mother's first name(s) Emma
Mother's last name

St John the Evangelist, Walworth
Florence born 17 July 1894
Address 32 ?Larcon Street

The birth Reg. to go with baptism above

England & Wales births 1837-2006 Transcription

First name(s) FLORENCE EMMA
Last name LEE
Birth year 1894
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's last name -
District ST. SAVIOUR SOUTHWARK
County London
Country England
Volume 1D
Page 165

?? The family in 1901

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
50, Manor Street, Clapham, Wandsworth, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Lee Head Widower Male 50 1851 Hardware Packer Civil Service Stores March, Cambridgeshire, England
Edith E Lee Daughter Single Female 19 1882 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Florence E Lee Daughter - Female 6 1895 Scholar Walworth, Surrey, England
Jessie Lee Daughter - Female 4 1897 - Lambeth, Surrey, England

This looks like Father Henry in 1891 - also a widower, so the "marriage" to Florence's mother should be after the 1891 census

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Palace Buildings 1st Floor, Alfred Place, Lambeth, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Lee Head Widower Male 38 1853 Packer March, Cambridgeshire, England
John W Lee Son - Male 14 1877 Scholar Lambeth, Middlesex, England
Rose A Lee Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Bermondsey, Middlesex, England
Edith E Lee Daughter - Female 9 1882 - Bermondsey, Middlesex, England
Emma Lee Daughter - Female 6 1885 - Bermondsey, Middlesex, England

Henry with first wife and family - not helping I know with second wife!! Just putting up the information as I come across it.

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
46, Raymouth Road, Rotherhithe, St Olave Southwark, London, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Lee Head Married Male 31 1850 Packer In Biscuit Works Cambridgeshire, England
Sarah Lee Wife Married Female 27 1854 - Cambridgeshire, England
John Lee Son Single Male 4 1877 - Lambeth, Surrey, England
Rose Lee Daughter Single Female 1 1880 - Bermondsey, Surrey, England

Jessie Lee
in the London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image VIEW
Add Alternative Information
Report issue
Name: Jessie Lee
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 15 Jul 1898
Father's name: Henry Lee
Mother's name: Emma Lee
Parish or Poor Law Union: Upper Tooting Holy Trinity
Borough: Wandsworth
Register Type: Parish Registers

Henry a Packer at Stores. Address 6 Fircroft Road.
No DOB this time.

Yes this is the lineage of the tree. Does this information also fit into your tree? I also found Henry on the 1851 census as well and I have a couple of links to follow up for the marriage of Jessie and Rose A. I haven't been able to find any records of a marriage to Emma, Henry states he is widowed on the 1901 and 1911 but has young children so I'm wandering if the children are illigitamate.

Have you definitely got the right birth ?


Births Sep 1894
Lee Florence Emma - St. Saviour 1d 165

Births Dec 1894
Lee Florence Emma - Hackney 1b 540


what other info do you know about your Florence ?

Paula ............


welcome to the Boards .................


None of the helpers have any connection with you or your ancestors.

We are all simply members like yourself, who like to help others by using our skills and knowledge of possible places to look.

hi Paula, no one here is related to you, we are all just paying members like yourself who have a thing for genealogy :-)

the location and first wife Sarah's age in the 1881 census (dob 1854) would match with this death possibly

Deaths Dec 1888
Lee Sarah 34 St. Olave 1d 132



I wonder about this Emma

Marriages Dec 1885
Cutts James Henry St. Saviour 1d 213
Hinton Emma St. Saviour 1d 213

(I ruled out the other couple on the page, together in 1911)

I can't find them together in 1891, 1901 or 1911
and I can't find him separately

Births Mar 1861
CUTTS James Henry St Geo East 1c 434

I suspect he is with parents James and Jane in Stepney in 1871

if he had run off, or they were otherwise estranged, she would not have been free to marry and could have lived with Mr Lee unmarried

aha, this is him in 1891

Name: James Cutts
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Mother's name: Jane Cutts
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: London
Occupation: cab washer
>> Condition as to marriage: MARRIED, no wife in household
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road

so that does look like a possibility ...

I would suspect this is that Emma

Name: Emma Cutts
Age: 27
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Relation: Lodger
Where born: Camberwell, London, England
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
County/Island: London
Occupation: laundress
>> Condition as to marriage: MARRIED
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Kent Road


if that were the case ... I don't see a death for that Emma as Cutts, or as Lee ... she might have left Mr Lee as well and by 1901 been living with someone else under his name ...

This looks the Florence Emily born in the December quarter 1894, and registered in Hackney

1901

Name: Florence E Lee
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: James W Lee
Mother: Emma Lee
Birth Place: Hackney, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Search Photos: Search for 'Hackney' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke Homerton
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: South-East Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 07

Piece: 230
Folio: 27
Page Number: 45
Household schedule number: 306

James W Lee 47 b.ca 1854, Hackney, Bin Plate Gds Worker
Emma Lee 46 b.ca 1855, Essex
Edith M Lee 19 b.ca 1882, Hackney, Factory Hand (Confectionery)
George H Lee 13 b.ca 1888, Hackney
Ethel Lee 8 b.ca 1893, Hackney
Florence E Lee 6
Josepha Lee 43 Brother, Widower, Furrier's Cutter

Address:- 47 Digby (?Rigby) Road

This looks like their marriage .............

Marriages Dec 1877 (>99%)
Lee James William Hackney 1b 849
Thomason Emma Hackney 1b 849


Baptism of daughter Edith M??

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: Edith May Lee
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 Sep 1883
Father's name: William James Lee
Mother's name: Emma Lee
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hackney St Luke
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-
Address:- 47 Digby Street
Father occupation:- Tin Plate Worker


Unfortunately, I cannot find baptisms for Ethel and Florence.




BUT ............ it does seem that this is NOT the family, if the maiden name is shown as Hinton on the birth certificate. Thus, it answers Mike's question

I think the question was whether it was the right birth certificate :-)

so the question is whether Paula is sure that is the right family - Henry originally married to Sarah, with those various children

do you know that independently of the birth certificate Paula?

for instance do you know other members of Florence's family, is where that Florence was born the area the family comes from, did she name Henry as her father when she married ... ?

well found, Joonie!

re the 1891 Census for James Cutts ..............


there are 3 grandchildren living with them. The question is ........... whose children are they?

Name Age
Jane Cutts 52
Thomas Cutts 19
Matilda Cutts 5 b.ca 1886, Newington, London, Grandaughter
James Cutts 30
John Cutts 3 b.ca 1888, Newington, Grandson Father James
Florence Cutts 2 b.ca 1889, Newington, Granddaughter, Father James

OK!

London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906

Name: James John Cutts
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1889
Father's name: James Henry Cutts
Mother's name: Emma Cutts
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Mark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

from image:-

Born:- 12 September 1887
Address:- 123 Barlow St
Father occupation:- Hostler


Name: Matilda Cutts
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 14 Apr 1889
Father's name: James Henry Cutts
Mother's name: Emma Cutts
Parish or Poor Law Union: Walworth St Mark
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Born:- 13 March 1886
Address:- 123 Barlow Street
Father occupation:- Hostler


can't see baptism for Florence.


James' occupation on the 1891 Census ......... Ostler, Inn

Marriage of James Cutts to Emma Hinton ...........


London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: James Henry Cutts
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Age: 24
Spouse: Emma Hinton
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Oct 1885
Parish: St Mary Magdalene, Southwark
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Cutts
Spouse Father: William Henry Hinton
Register Type: Parish Register

from image:-

James
Bachelor
Occupation:- Hostler
Address:- 17 Jabius (??) Buildings, John Street
Father occupation:- Deceased

Emma
Spinster
no occupation shown
Address:- 39 The Garden (??), Pimlico
Father occupation:- Cotton Spinner

Witnesses:- Charles Whitby and Jane Maria Cutts

Just asking if Henry you found 1851, was Harry, in March, Cambs?...(Father William, Mother Mary Ann Clark)

Chris :)


Births Mar 1850 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
Lee Harry Nth Witchford 14 144

(also on below)

https://www.camdex.org.uk/search.cfm


edits (notes on 1881 Birthplace Chatteris given for Sarah, so not far from March)

Yes, I think it is the one and same

(his Parents 1841 are in in Northwold, Norfolk)

Chris :)

Baptism
County Norfolk
Place Northwold
Church name St Andrew
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 981
Baptism date 29 Aug 1841
Person forename Sarah
Person sex F
Person abode Northwold
Father forename William
Father surname LEE
Father occupation Labourer
Mother forename Mary
Mother surname CLARKE


County Suffolk
Place Lakenheath
Church name All Saints
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 48
Marriage date 28 Feb 1841
Groom forename William
Groom surname LEE
Groom age full age
Groom condition Bachelor
Groom occupation Blacksmith
Bride forename Mary Ann
Bride surname CLARK
Bride age minor
Bride condition Spinster
Groom father forename Joseph
Groom father surname LEE
Groom father occupation Glover
Bride father forename Henry
Bride father surname CLARK
Bride father occupation Labourer
Witness1 forename Henry
Witness1 surname MUSSON

http://www.freereg.org.uk/

(from above link)


Cambridgeshire Burials Transcription (Find My Past)

First name(s) William
Last name Lee
Birth year 1813
Death year 1849
Age 36
Burial year 1849
Burial date 03 Nov 1849
Parish March
County Cambridgeshire
Notes cholera


Deaths Dec 1849 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
Lee William North Witchford 14 99


Deaths Mar 1884 (>99%)
---------------------------------------------------------
Lee Mary Ann 60 North Witchford 3b 363


21 June 1856 - Cambridge Independent Press - Cambridge, Cambridgeshire

Sessions and Police Intelligence.
MARCH. June 17.—(Before the Rev. Algernon Peyton and F. D. Fryer, Esq.) - Mary Ann Lee, of March, charged Jane Bond, with assaulting her. It appeared from the evidence that one was bad as the other, and the Magistrates dismissed the case, the defendant paying the costs 5s.