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Posting 1851, as it keeps being mentioned

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Chapel Lane, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Dennett Head Married Male 49 1802 Journey Man Clock Maker St Helens, Lancashire, England Transcription
Margaret Dennett Wife Married Female 42 1809 - St Helens, Lancashire, England Transcription
Elizabeth Dennett Daughter - Female 11 1840 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Thomas Dennett Son - Male 2 1849 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England

No way of knowing who Elizabeth's mother is/was............and there's a heck of a gap to Thomas if they did have the same mother

??????????
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Copperas Hill, Liverpool, Lancashire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Henry Holland Head Married Male 23 1828 Tobacconist Hackthorn, Leicestershire, England Transcription
Susanah Holland Wife Married Female 28 1823 - Lancashire, England Transcription
Sarah Meek Mother Widow Female 52 1799 Milliner Hackthorn, Leicestershire, England Transcription
Ann Hughes Lodger Unmarried Female 21 1830 Dress Maker Liverpool, Lancashire, England Transcription
Ann Dennett Servant Unmarried Female 14 1837 Housemaid Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Looks like Thomas named a couple of children James & Margaret too

Name: Thomas Dennett
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: St Helens
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: St Helens
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Prescot
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3022
Folio: 60
Page Number: 51
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Dennett 41
James Dennett 17
Margaret Dennett 15

I like the baptism in 1848 ... the birth certificate I've sent for for Thomas is the Sept qtr of 1848. Also, if the earlier baptism in 1835 is correct and the child died then the big gap to Thomas (1848) would make more sense, especially if the Ann Dennett in 1851 census is a sibling - she would've been born abt 1837.

What's also interesting is that Thomas' daughter, Louisa, married a Matthew Fairclough - it was her third marriage.

T

this is the only birth for a elizabeth dennett in 1840 with mother margaret

Elizabeth Dennett
England Births and Christenings
Name: Elizabeth Dennett
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 04 Oct 1840
Christening Place: St.Thomas Eccleston, (near Prescot), Lancashire, England
Father's Name: Isaac Dennett
Mother's Name: Margaret

Thanks malyon. This birth gives the father as Isaac and the father of Elizabeth in the 1851 census is shown as James and James' two children, Elizabeth (1840) and Thomas (1849) were both born in Liverpool. This baptism was in St. Helens. There has to be another birth but like you I can only find the one above.

could this be the death of elizabeth mother of thomas born 1835



Elizabeth Dennett
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name: Elizabeth Dennett
Event Type: Death
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration Year: 1842
Registration District: Prescot
County: Lancashire
Event Place: Prescot, Lancashire, England

It could be, but I don't know that that Thomas is mine. My Thomas, as far as we can tell, has parents James and Margaret.

it was that elizabeth born 1840 you say parents james and margaret it seems a big gap between elizabeth and thomas born 1849 so james could have been with elizabeth who died in 1842 before he married margaret

Yep, that gap really bothers me ... very unusual for back then. If indeed the Thomas b. 1835, and Ann b. 1837, found by Jacqueline, are siblings of my Thomas, then James could've been married to Elizabeth first ... but Elizabeth b. 1840 is shown as a daughter to James and Margaret.

It's possible .. I'll check it out. Thanks again.

The relationship of daughter is to the head, I.e. James and does not mean Margaret is her mother.

Jude

Until you find proof, you can't say that Margaret was Elizabeth's mother

In fact, as it appears that James had a wife Elizabeth, it's far more likely that she was the mother

When you get the 1848 birth cert..........come back with the facts, and we'll go from there

Do you know whether the family have any Catholic background?

If they were Catholics that might account for the lack of BMDs for them as there aren't that many Catholic parish records transcribed outside the big cities also the fact that it wasn't compulsory to register BMD until 1875 could be another factor.

Yes, I think it's all speculation until I get that birth certificate.

Thanks.

This part of the family has been on the back burner and I've finally got round to having another go at it - it's so confusing and that's why I'm adding it onto my previous thread.

In 1841 census James is with Elizabeth with daughter Ann. You will see previously there was another child, Thomas, b. 1835 and died 1939, age 4.

In 1851 census Ann is working as a servant in Liverpool, age 14, and James is now with Margaret with children Elizabeth and Thomas. Looked for birth for Ann and found two, Dec 1837 in Liverpool, mmn White, and Sep 1837 in W. Derby, mmn Knowles. I have the birth certificate for Thomas which gives him born 22 August 1848 in St. Helens, mother Margaret Fairclough. Tried searching for Elizabeth b. 1840, found two - Dec 1840, Prescot, mmn Playthian, and Sept 1841, Prescot, mmn Higginson. Further search found Elizabeth with mmn Higginson, was daughter of Thomas and Margaret Dennett, so not mine).

None of these mmn match up. Any suggestions?

As there were no penalties for not registering births until 1875, it’s quite likely that the births weren’t registered

What are you trying to prove?

As Ann was 14 on 1851 census, her birth would have been BEFORE registration was introduced on July 1st 1837

Which person is your PROVEN ancestor?

Elizabeth age 11 in 1851 was born well before the two births you've looked at.

Make a note of the date on which the census was taken, and calculate from there

??.posted before, but putting into context with civil reg'n

Name: Thomas Dennett
Age: 0
Birth Date: 22 Aug 1848
Baptism Date: 6 Sep 1848
Baptism Place: St Patrick, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Father: James Dennett
Mother: Margaret Fairclough

Godparent surname: Cummins

Unfortunately, the RC records don't include address or father's occupation

DENNETT, THOMAS (MMN) FAIRCLOUGH
GRO Reference: 1848 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 20 Page 950

Would show on 1851 as born c1849........do the maths ;-) ;-)

???

Name: Margaret Fairclough
Birth Date: 3 Aug 1809
Baptism Date: 13 Aug 1809
Parish: Prescot, Lancashire, England
Father's Name: James Fairclough
Mother's Name: Ellen Fairclough