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Dea,
If I don,t get it right this time leave it its my fault ok her goes.
I can not find Sam Rogers death certificate I ordered 2 one 1915 wrong wife
1931 my Gran Minnie and my dad Sam wasn't, on it .
Sam married Minnie on the Dec 30th in Manchester on it it said he was born in 1866 in London Genes friends found he was born London 1854.

Minnie died 1935 Salford and my dad died 1961 Salford

On the 1911 Census they lived in Temple St Chorlton on Medlock.
Everything you have all found about him was perfect I couldn't, have done it without you all.
Sam

Is this the tree you mean ?

Samuel Rogers
Birth abt 1864 in London City, England
Death Jun 1931 in Salford, Lancashire, England

father : Isaac Rogers 1830 –

spouse : Minnie Leadbeater 1872 – 1935

child :Samuel Rogers1910 – 1961

Hi Samuel

You need to give us more details about your grandfather....parents, sibling(s) children and wife etc

There are all sorts of reasons why people do not reply to you, re their tree info

1911
Married 7 years
1 child born

Samuel Rogers 45 - coachman - London
Minnie Rogers 38 - Handley
Arthur Brindley 14 - stepson - Handley
Glaydas Brindley 11 - step daughter - Handley
Samuel Rogers 4/12 - son - Manchester

Marriages Dec 1905

BRINDLEY Minnie Manchester 8d 364
FARRAND Margaret Manchester 8d 364
HUTCHINSON Thomas Manchester 8d 364
ROGERS Samuel Manchester 8d 364

-------------------------

Name:
Samuel Rogers

Birth Year:abt 1863
Age:42

Marriage Date:30 Dec 1905
Parish:Manchester, St John

Parish as it Appears:Manchester

Father's Name:Isaac Rogers

Spouse's Name:Minnie Brindley
Spouse's Father's Name:George Leadbetter

Previous marriage for Minnie

Marriages Mar 1894

Brindley Arthur Elijah Stoke T. 6b 268
Ford Emma Stoke T. 6b 268
Leadbeatter Minnie Stoke T. 6b 268
Leadbetter Minnie Stoke T. 6b 268
Smith William Stoke T. 6b 268

Thank you for all your help I only know about Sam's second wife my grandmother
Minnie Leadbeater .they married in Manchester in 1905. My problem is in LONDON
I don't know who Isaac was married to and also Sam was a widower who he married I don't know or if he had children. Sam and Minnie had a son Sam born 1910 died 1961 this was my dad

Samuel's father Isaac is deceased in 1905 but was a horsedealer.

For what it's worth I think he probably lied about his age - older than Minnie - marriage would indicate c1863, 1911 census c 1866 and death c1864 so I would be inclined to look a few years earlier for a birth. The thing about lying, you need a good memory!

Did the witnesses (alfred & elizabeth compton) at your grandparents marriage give any clues? Just wondered if you had traced them to see if they were from Sam's side of the family.

Have you tried to find Isaac Rogers, horse dealer, on the 1871/81 census to see if Sam was with him? That is, if he actually existed - some marriages recorded ficticious fathers to cover illgitimacy ;-)

If these families are travellers / Gypsy / Hawkers you will have a hard time
trying to find them on Census , many of such people dont appear on census
as they are not found by census recorders.

The best way to try and find such people is by baptisms , they travelled
around the country quite a lot.

there are some Gypsy sites that may help

Mavis

Mavis has a good point, without trying to generalise or get into the politcal argument about "correctness" a horse dealer and general dealer could possibly indicate they were of Gypsy/Romany origin - although not necessarily. I hadn't thought about it from that angle - the families can be very difficult to find/follow.

Nudge to the top of the board for Samuel.

It's best to delete the new thread you started today and continue on this one.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1339276
Granfather Sam

After all this time I am still no further finding my granddad.I know he married my grandmother on the 5 Dec 1905 in Manchester.
He came from London his father was Isaac and he was born about 1866 but I can't find his birth also he was a widower when he married my gran Minnie so who was his wife and did he have any children.

I need help thank you Sam

Thank you I keep coming up with nothing.

I am looking at this census at the moment (asuming that Samuel lied about his age, which is probable) :

??????????
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
..., 94, Wentworth Street, Whitechapel, London, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Joseph Rogers Head Married Male 23 1838 General Dealer Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Emma Rogers Wife Married Female 21 1840 - Harwich, Essex, England
Transcription
Samuel Rogers Nephew Married Male 7 1854 Scholar Whitechapel, Middlesex, England



Joseph did have a father Isaac who was also a dealer of some sort??

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hutchison Avenue, Saint Botolph Aldgate, East London, Middlesex, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Isaac Rogers Head Married Male 34 1817 General Dealer London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Rebecca Rogers Wife Married Female 33 1818 - London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Joseph Rogers Son - Male 13 1838 Scholar London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Esther Rogers Daughter - Female 9 1842 Scholar London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Abigail Rogers Daughter - Female 2 1849 Scholar London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Catherine Fitzgerald Servant Unmarried Female 18 1833 Servant London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Denis Holland Lodger Married Male 32 1819 Tailor Ireland
Transcription
Johanan Holland Lodger Wife Married Female 22 1829 - Ireland
Transcription
Catherine Holland Lodger Daughter - Female 1 1850 - London, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Denis Conway Lodger Unmarried Male 26 1825 Sailor Ireland
Transcription
John Corteta Lodger Unmarried Male 18 1833 Sailor Ireland
Transcription
Benjamin Marks Lodger Married Male 29 1822 Sailor Prussia, Germany
Transcription
Betsey Marks Lodger Married Female 28 1823 - Prussia, Germany




Marriages Sep 1860 (>99%)
Batten Samuel William Anderson Whitechapel 1c 778 Scan available - click to view
Roberts Ellen Whitechapel 1c 778 Scan available - click to view
***Rogers Joseph Whitechapel 1c 778 Scan available - click to view
***Smith Emma Whitechapel 1c 778 Scan available - click to view
Smith Enna Whitechapel 1c 778 Scan available - click to view


Dea x

It's looking good ??

Name: Joseph Rogers - Hawker
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Age: 23
Spouse: Emma Smith
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 30 Jul 1860
Parish: St Jude, Whitechapel
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Isaac Rogers........... HORSE DEALER !!
Spouse Father: Thomas Smith
Register Type: Parish Register

Dea x

1st marriage ??

Name: Samuel Rodgers
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Age: 21
Spouse: Elizabeth Howard
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Feb 1875
Parish: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Isaac Rodgers - Horse Dealer
Spouse Father: Thomas Howard
Register Type: Parish Register

witnesses: Abigail Tallack, Edward Henry Tallack + Herman???? E????
Address for both - 7 Garden Place

Dea x

Dea that's fab!

A tree on Ancestry suggests that that family was originally surname RODRIGUES. (no idea if correct but may be worth looking at)

Freedom of the City Admission Papers, 1681-1925
Name: Samuel Rodrigues
Admission Date: 20 Dec 1877
Father's name: Isaac Rodrigues

This Court doth hereby assent to the Admission of Samuel Rodrigues otherwise Rogers of 2 Angel Alley, Whitechapel, Carman.

I Samuel Rodrigues commonly called Rogers son of Isaac Rodrigues late of the City of London, saddle and harness maker dec'd occupying premises 2 Angel Alley, Whitechapel employed as a carman...

Thank you so much everyone this is the best advice so far.
I didn't think I could move on this Only knowing Sam had Isaac as his
father on his marriage certificate to Minnie.

My dad died in 1961so I only had my mother to try and fill in the
Missing pieces as Sam died before my mother met my dad she could
only tell me what my dad told her.

Once again I can't thank you all for your help it has given me so many
paths to go down.

Sam.

Well found Austin !!


1st marriage ??

Name: Samuel Rodgers - Carman ??
Estimated birth year: abt 1854
Age: 21
Spouse: Elizabeth Howard
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Feb 1875
Parish: St Bartholomew, Bethnal Green
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Isaac Rodgers - Horse Dealer
Spouse Father: Thomas Howard
Register Type: Parish Register

witnesses: Abigail Tallack, Edward Henry Tallack + Herman???? E????
Address for both - 7 Garden Place

Dea x