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Something odd here, I can't see him at all except for the 1881 census and his marriage (presuming he married Ellen Daniels?)
Is it possible that his mother remarried and he took a different surname? Have you found him on the 1861 and 1871 census?

Hi Beverley,

Thank you that is precisely the problem.

He died 1884 at the young age of 26 years. Thomas Charles Povey his only child and my grandfather was born 1880 and was on the census.

It has been a problem. He married Eleanor Daniels, but she is called Ellen on the census. As I said I have all information but not his birth and Reggie's comment has prompted me to try a baptism. Reggie stated (on another thread) that it was not compulsory to register a birth until a certain time and it may be possible to find the birth by way of a baptism. It was just a long shot.

Thank you so much for your efforts.

Sappho

Just to clarify - the other thread was another person's thread and Reggie was helping with information.

Sappho

1881 for info only

1881 census transcription details for: 17, Cole Street, Newington


National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 533
Folio: 51
Page: 36
Reg. District: St Saviour Southwark
Sub District: Trinity Newington
Parish: Newington
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 17, Cole Street, Newington
County: London, Surrey
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
POVEY, Thomas H Head Married M 22 1859 Labourer
Brighton, Sussex
POVEY, Hellenn Wife Married F 21 1860
Southwark, Surrey
POVEY, Thomas C Son Single M 0 1881
Southwark, Surrey

Hello Reggie, Apologies for some reason I could not reply to message. Think the 'go slow' was on.

Answer: Thomas Henry's father was deceased when he married Eleanor Daniels.
Charles Thomas Povey is down on the marriage cert as House Painter.

I take your point about illegitmacy - it had crossed my mind. However, the names coming down through the family Charles Thomas, Thomas Charles, etc. give a bit of merit, but your suggestion is huge possibility - he's so elusive as only found on 1881 Census.

Witness to the marriage: is Agnes Ann English (which is what I have deciphered - not very clear) and Caroline Winter - black ink writing. The former made a mark!

Hope that helps.

Thanks for replying.

Sappho

Thank you Astra.

I have this information:

It is confusing as my Gt. Grandmother Eleanor Daniels kept changing her name from Hellenn, Hellen, Ellen and Helen. She married James Goodwin after the death of Thomas Henry Povey and he adopted my grandfather Thomas Charles, but only for the 1911 census it seems as mum was born a Povey.

There is very little to find as I have most of the information on the family, but elusive is the birth of my gt. grandfather Thomas Henry. I have sent for over 70 pounds worth of incorrect birth certs for him and I cannot give them away!!

I was just hoping for this information on a maybe baptism.

Thanks for your support.

Sappho

One point I thought about was that there was a Boys Home in Brighton, Sussex and although I have temporary mislaid the information, my memory serves me to think a Thomas Povey ws listed and was born in Ireland.

I really hoped there may be a baptism to help.

I remember finding my mothers aunt who no-one in the family ever mentioned as she died in infancy - it only came to light when another aunt in the same family line was baptised on the same day as she was and so the baptism record gave us the information.

Thanks for all your help - it is so appreciated. I like to help too where I can.

thanks aain
Sappho

Hi there,

Just off to bed now. Live in NZ and my eyelids won't hold any longer.

Thank you all for your time and energy. Will look in in the morning.

Good night and take care.

Sappho

Have you investigated these births?

Births Jun 1858 (>99%)
Povey Male Lewes 2b 128

Births Sep 1859 (>99%)
POVEY Male Lewes 2b 140
Povey Male Lewes 2b 141

Also how about this for 1871?

Piece: RG10/1081 Place: Brighton -Sussex Enumeration District: 35
Civil Parish: Brighton Ecclesiastical Parish: Brighton
Folio: 81 Page: 3 Schedule: 19
Address: 17 Cheapside (Crosskeys)

RAMSEY James Head M M 55 Publican Essex - Chelmsford
RAMSEY Ann Wife M F 52 Hampshire - Cliddesden(Originally: Hampshire - Chiddesden)
POVEY Thomas Nephew U M 14 Servant Hampshire - Hook(Originally: Hampshire - Hoock) <<<<<<<
LOCKE Walter A Nephew U M 6 Scholar Middlesex - London
ORAN Annie Servnt U F 15 General Servt Sussex - Brighton

Hello Beverley,

Once again I have sent for these birth certificates. You will not trace him through birth certs. There is no record. It would be a baptism only if we find any connection to his birth.

The publican one - Hook, Hampshire had no connection, but at one stage was a huge possibility. Still no connecting birth.

Thank you for this search. It is a hard one. Had my hopes pinned on the baptism records if there is one!

Thanks again.

Sappho

1881 (Agnes the Witness)
ENGLISH, James Head Married M 22 1859 R?. Fitter (Range Fitter)
Southwark, Surrey
ENGLISH, Agnes Wife Married F 21 1860 Book Folder
Lambeth, Surrey
ENGLISH, Agnes Daughter Single F 2 1879
Lambeth, Surrey
Piece: 585
Folio: 19
Page: 32
Registration District: Lambeth
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Municipal Borough:
Address: 10, Windmill Round, Lambeth
County: London, Surrey


Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------
English James Alford St Saviour 1d 26 (Alfred)
HARRIS Agnes Ann St Saviour Southwark

(6, Aylesbury Street given for Residence on Marriage above for Agnes, same as for Ellen 1880)

1881 (other Witness)
WINTER, Richard Head Married M 37 1844 Malt Roaster (Maltster)
WINTER, Caroline Wife Married F 38 1843
Piece: 544
Folio: 76
Page: 9
Registration District: St Saviour Southwark
Civil Parish: Newington
Municipal Borough:
Address: 6, Aylesbury Street, Newington
County: London, Surrey

Chris :)


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D7946082

Name Povey, Thomas Henry
Place of Birth: Eaton, Middlesex
Continuous Service Number: 17625B
Date of Volunteering: 08 September 1871
Date of Birth: 13 August 1856

(noted another also)

Hello Chris HO,

Help me?? What does this mean?

So you have found this at National Archives. It represents a birth in 1856 - the connection is?

forgive my ignorance - and I thought I knew my way around most sites.

Sappho

Is this connected to the Witness?

Yes, now I can see this - how clever of you. I sent for the Eton Cert for Thomas Povey. Must see where I filed it and have another look.

WOW on this one - and thanks of course!!

Sappho

Yes, - sorry can now see you have found this - it is wonderful.

I wonder if that is the one I have: Found it - good job I kept it.

Thomas Henry b 1855 Mill Lane, Eton. Bravo and it does state his father as Thomas Povey.

To think I had the certificate all the time.

Many, many thanks and I am over the moon. Now for my breakfast.

How happy you have made me. Elusive - not at all!

Thanks, thanks and thanks to yolu all.

Sappho

Was just looking round and noticed the above one, the document can be downloaded on above link, but relates to Navy (Continuous Service) so didn't think he would fit with occupation of your one, perhaps another to rule out!.

Not sure what there is for Sussex Parish Records available online (as you can't visit!) perhaps worth a google...

Chris :)

Hi Chris Ho,

A bit lost again (perhaps excitement has got to me). so above you refere to the National Archives site you attached??

I will have another look - do you think I may have got the wrong birth now? I was so excited - I really think it good, but he did state he was born Brighton Sussex on the 1881 Census. He could have thought this for some reason.

I may just google Sussex Parish Records as you suggest.

Thanks Chris - you have been gret.

Sappho

Hello again Chris Ho:)

I am now convinced I have the right birth certificate as both witness fit and the Marriage Cert. gives Ellen Daniels address as 6, Aylesbury Street.

Part of our family seem to mislead (lie) about their ages and I am wondering if this is the case here on the marriage cert. Thomas H states he is 22 years old and Elllen is 20 years old. Ellen is correct as I have her birth cert and she was born 1860, but doing my sums on Thomas H brought us to 1858/9 so ruled out the Eton birth for 1855 - it is now much more a certainty. In fact, I am convinced!

You have been very helpful and again, my thanks.

Best wishes,

Sappho

Yes, the Witness bit is ok, just Navy Thomas!. You can download that document and see details.

As Your Thomas Henry 1880 is a House Painter, and his Father (Charles Thomas Povey, Deceased) also down as House Painter, could cast doubt!.

Have you got details of 1855 Birth Cert., or found family on 1861?...

Chris :)