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The 1861 just has Martha with her parents.


1861 RG number: RG09 Piece: 1035 Folio: 94 Page: 28
Reg. District: Newmarket Sub District: 5 Soham
Address: East End, Isleham, Cambridgeshire County: Cambridgeshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PARR, Martha Head Unmarried F 22 1839 Grocer Isleham Cambridgeshire
PARR, Thomas Lodger Unmarried M 68 1793 Water Man Burwell Cambridgeshire
PARR, Frances Lodger F 63 1798 Isleham Cambridgeshire


T x

Mother Fanny's death?

Deaths Jun 1884 Parr Fanny 87 Newmarket 3b 306


T x

That looks as if it completes the picture, thank you LiverBird & Tracey.

[Edit: completes the picture for now, I'm sure when I get my head around all of this there will be new lines to follow.]

I now need to transcribe this lot and make it all tie together. For my purposes (family interest rather than scientific study) this looks to me to be pretty conclusive. To what extent might it be advisable to confirm any of this by ordering certificates and so on?

Keith

How interesting in 1871... seems Martha jnr's dad James was staying at his sister's, just as Martha does 10 yrs later.

1871 RG number: RG10 Piece: 1587 Folio: 78 Page: 7
Reg. District: Cambridge Sub District: St Andrew the Less
Address: Russell Street, St Andrew The Less, Cambridge County: Cambridgeshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLEET, George Head M 32 1839 Cambridgeshire
FLEET, Martha Wife F 32 1839 Cambridgeshire
PARR, Fanny Mother F 74 1797 Cambridgeshire
PARR, James Boarder M 27 1844 Cambridgeshire
SPARKE, Rebecca Visitor F 21 1850 Cambridgeshire

Another weird thing...

In 1881 we have

SPARKE, Caroline Visitor Widow F 52 1829 Isleha Cambridgeshire

....and in 1871 we have

SPARKE, Rebecca Visitor F 21 1850 Cambridgeshire

Could the Sparke's be related somewhere too? Probably through the famale line?



Tracey x

Marriage certs are always a good safe bet.

You would need to transcribe it all and then go for key certs to prove relationships.

But i would wager what we have found is fairly conclusive.

As you say there are still plenty of 'ends' that still need clearing up. The danger is you can get to 'off track' before you register everything you have for now.

Just remember to come back to the same thread and not starting another one, whereby there is a danger of data being repeatedly found.

If you do choose to come back, just add the word 'Updated' to your thread title.


Tracey x

Thanks Tracey, will do.

Keith

I wasn't sure whether to start a new thread or revive this one - so plumped for this one on the basis that some of the background information is above.

I'd like help, please, to sort out some confusion around James Parr 1834, one generation earlier than the thread name.

According to the information in this thread from LiverBird:
Marriages Dec 1858 (>99%)
Fletcher John Newmarket 3b 1205
Fuller Honor Newmarket 3b 1205
******Parr James Newmarket 3b 1205
*****Sangster Jane Newmarket 3b 1205

Marriages Dec 1886 (>99%)
HOUGHTON Ann Newmarket 3b 1084
LAMBERT Edward Newmarket 3b 1084
*****PARR James Newmarket 3b 1084
*****REED Sarah Newmarket 3b 1084

This makes sense in combination with a death record for Jane of 1877 & an 1881 census record showing James and children but no wife.

A fellow researcher on GR also has James Parr married to Sarah & Jane but he has Jane Unk & Sarah Unk.

Now it could be that we are both right - eg Sarah was born Unk, married Reed, then married James, or not! Please could someone here find records which would illuminate what happened?

Many thanks

Keith

Day:25
Month:Oct
Year:1886
Groom forename:James
Groom surname:PARR
Groom's residence:of Waterside [Isleham]
Groom's condition:widr
Groom's occupation:lab
Groom's age:52
Groom's father's forename:Thomas
Groom's father's surname:
Groom's father's occupation:waterman
Bride forename:Sarah
Bride surname:REED
Bride's residence:of East End [Isleham]
Bride's condition:wid
Bride's occupation:charwoman
Bride's age:53
Bride's father's forename:Jeremiah
Bride's father's surname:MOODY
Bride's father's occupation:lab
By Licence:by banns
Place:Isleham
County:Cambridgeshire,England
Witness 1 forename:William
Witness 1 surname:PALMER
Witness 2 forename:Rebecca
Witness 2 surname:MARTIN
Data provider:Cambridgeshire Family History Society


Day:16
Month:Nov
Year:1858
Groom forename:James
Groom surname:PARR
Groom's residence:otp
Groom's condition:bac
Groom's occupation:lab
Groom's age:25
Groom's father's forename:Thomas
Groom's father's surname:
Groom's father's occupation:lab
Bride forename:Jane (x)
Bride surname:SANGSTER
Bride's residence:otp
Bride's condition:sp
Bride's occupation:[blank]
Bride's age:19
Bride's father's forename:John
Bride's father's surname:
Bride's father's occupation:lab
By Licence:by banns
Place:Isleham
County:Cambridgeshire,England
Witness 1 forename:Christopher
Witness 1 surname:SANXTER
Witness 2 forename:Martha
Witness 2 surname:PARR

Chris :)


http://www.cfhs.org.uk/Search.html

(above link for Cambridgeshire Baptisms and Burials 1801 - 1837)

I'm sorry, I've just made a fool of myself. Unk. Unknown. Sorry!

But those records are spot on, Chris, thanks a lot, it was exactly what I needed!

Keith

This is an update to tidy up the Batt / Ball confusion in the thread.
The name should be Batt. Alice Emma Tidy (sister of Edith Louise Tidy, who was wife of Thomas William Parr) married Thomas Batt about 1893. It looks as if Thomas Batt died young, left wife and kids without support, so they went to live with her sister.
I'd dearly like to find the 1911 census record for Thomas William Parr but have so far failed.
Hope this helps someone who happens on the thread.

Same here Keith, never had any luck...

Chris :)

(can see Isleham Baptisms for his siblings, but not him)

Hi Chris!

Thanks for looking. You mention baptism records for "his" siblings, that means Thomas William Parr's siblings? As far as I can tell, these are:

Mary 1860
Fanny 1861
Martha about 1861
John Royal 1863
Thomas William 1867
Mary 1870
Sarah Jane 1872
Jessie 1873
James 1875

Might you be able to confirm that this is what you see? Is this from the cfhs site again?

Another Parr who is also on this trail said the following:

"I have done complete searches on TW b 1870 Isleham and b1876 Cambs with no success. He comes up in the 1901 census if you enter his daughter Ellen b 1898 Hoxton.

There his age is given as 25 last birthday, and so I have him as b 1875 or 6. Unfortunately his POB is given as Cambs, which is not helpful,"

I also found this:

Births Jun 1867 (>99%) possible
Parr Thomas William Newmarket 3b 562

which is possible. Bit of a mystery man?

Isleham. St. Andrew (Parish cd)

Baptisms
1866 Sept 16 (all same time) Fanny age 6 John Royal age 3 Martha (no age) all of James and Jane otp lab)

Chris :)

(some Isleham also on Find My Past)

Chris, could you look up one other thing for me please? I have a note (unsupported by references, obviously dates from when I didn't know what was important ) of John Royal baptism 23 March 1863 which fits with his calculated date of birth (eg from census).

It seems unlikely that he would have been baptised twice. Can you also see on the CD a record for JR from 1863?

Baptism
Day:16
Month:Sep
Year:1866
Forenames:John Royal
Surname:Parr
Relationship:of
Father forenames:James
Fathers occupation:lab
Mother forenames:Jane
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:otp
Place:Isleham
County:Cambridgeshire
Notes:age 3 years
Record source:Cambridgeshire Baptisms


Births Jun 1863 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------
PARR John Newmarket 3b 566


http://www.camdex.org.uk/search.cfm

Name Year Reference
Birth PARR John 1863 331/SOH/18/125


(had a check Keith, but just the above)

Chris :)

Baptism (Uncle, and Father below)
Day:8
Month:Jan
Year:1837
Forenames:Royal
Surname:PARR
Relationship:son of
Father forenames:Thomas
Fathers occupation:waterman
Mother forenames:Frances
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:otp
Place:Isleham

Baptism
Day:14
Month:Sep
Year:1834
Forenames:James
Surname:Parr
Relationship:son of
Father forenames:Thomas
Fathers occupation:waterman
Mother forenames:Frances
Birth Day:
Birth Month:
Birth Year:
Abode:otp
Place:Isleham
County:Cambridgeshire

OK Chris, thank you very much, that seems pretty conclusive, I'll see whether I can find out where I got the other date from ...

The additional information is valuable too, thanks again Chris!

The first census transcription was FamilySearch's 1881.
Their transcription was online for England, Wales, IoM & Cannel Islands. Scotland was only available on CD (now out of stock) and by purchase from ScotlandsPeople (at a cheap reate of abt 20p).
Ancestry transcribed the census 1841-1911 excl 1881; they still use the FS transcription for that (and offer it free to all).
FMP transcribed 1841-1911 - they also offer 1881 free.
FS now use the FMP transcription for all their transcrptions, incl 1881; FS have a link to the FMP image, but it needs FMP credits to view (unless you access it at one of the FS centres scattered abt the UK (world really)).
However, only the 1871 & 1881 are worth bothering with; none of the others show the rest of the household with a lookup of one member.
The only other general transcription is FreeCEN's: http://www.freecen.org.uk/
However their coverage is very variable - they do say what they've transcribed, and I think their transcriptions are the most accurate.
FreeCEN does have what I consider to be the most convenient transcription display, and they also let you just click to get an adjacent household.
Actually, anyone can search Ancestry or FMP - it's just that you won't get to see many details without a sub, although one can guess stuff (like pob=Hoxton) and see if you still get the hit.

======================

I have some rellies who ran an inn. I think they were asked to distinguish between servants who worked in the household, and those who worked at the inn but stayed in the household, so one sees on their censuses "General servant domestic" and "General servant inn".
My guess is your "Coachman ND" is a Coachman non-domestic - possibly he worked for a local coaching company.

That's a very useful summary, mgnv, thank you. I wasn't aware of freecen, I'll check it out, not least in the hope that the sheets missing from the other sources might be there! Ah! Seems their scope is 1841 - 1891, so the search for Thomas William and his brood in 1911 continues ... I was aware of FMP but haven't used it, maybe that should be the next stop.

"However, only the 1871 & 1881 are worth bothering with; none of the others show the rest of the household with a lookup of one member."

I would, imagine that this is something which might be fixed retrospectively - if there was demand and funding? After all the hard work of transcription has been done, the rest is only cross links in a database - or am I missing something?

And thanks also for the idea about ND. It's possible he worked for a coaching company, but as his father was employed in a coaching inn it's also possible the inn was his employer.

Lets look at some of Tracey's hits - firstly:
Deaths Jun 1884 (>99%)
Parr Fanny 87 Newmarket 3b 306

Now I can click on "Newmarket" then the more info "here" links and see:
NEWMARKET REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Sub-districts : Bottisham, Burwell, Cheveley, Gazeley, Haverhill, Moulton, Newmarket, Soham.
Registers now held by : Cambridgeshire (Cambridge) and Suffolk (Bury St. Edmunds).
[along with the parishes/villages/etc in Newmarket RD]

One can buy a BMD cert from the GRO or the local office that now holds the rego's.
Some local offices have their indexes partly online - see http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd
One should get essentially the same cert - up to transcription differences between the furst copy sent to the GRO in 1888 (or whatever) and the transcription that was just made for you (since most local offices don't have the ability to send you a scan of the original rego, but this is changing.
["Essentially" as there is a minor change in the preprinted wording reflecting who holds the original rego.]

Here, we're interested in https://www.camdex.org.uk/search.cfm

DEATHS Name(s)- recorded with entry Age/DOB Year
331/SOH/19/180 PARR Fanny 87 1884

MARRIAGE/CIVIL P M/CP Name(s)- recorded with entry Year
332/C-ISAM1/333 M PARR James SANGSTER Jane 1858

MARRIAGE/CIVIL P M/CP Name(s)- recorded with entry Year
332/C-ISAM2/158 M PARR James MOODY Sarah REED Sarah 1886

Although we're chasing after the same cert, the local office might have a difft idea abt what info helps to identify it.
So one might see a mum's maiden surname on a pre-1911q3 birth (but not at camdex), and an age at death pre-1866 - at camdex, this depends on the subdistrict, but it does appear pre-1866 in Soham.
Some local indexes index by year of event rather than the quarter it was rego'ed in.
Finally, there's the info that the GRO or local office need to locate the entry.
The GRO want the vol & page #, then use the name to locate the cert desired - although I'll bet somewhere there's two David Jones births on the same page.
The local ref has 3 elements:
firstly, an identifier for the set of rego's - a subdistrict name (or code) for Bs & Ds or a church name (or code) for Ms;
secondly, an identifier (usually a sequence #) of which rego is needed;
finally, a page or entry # - if a page # is specified, then one also needs a name.

Usually, an entry # is used for Ms - a page is often used for Bs & DS (but camdex use an entry #).
When an entry # is used for Ms, obviously the spouse has the same entry #.

Now camdex don't decode their codes for you, but it's easy to guess the 331/SOH stands for Soham, /19 refers to Soham's 19th rego for deaths and 180 is an entry # (all local regos had 500 entrys, 5 per page for Bs & Ds, 2 per page for Ms).
I've no idea what church 332/C-ISAM is, but the "C-" probably means it's a C of E church - the alternatives pre-1898 were jewish (often a J- or S- code), quakers (often a Q- or F- code) and the registrar's own rego (which also had non-conformist marrs he was required to attend if they lacked their own official rego - often an RO- or R- code).
Maybe http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/271173
(I also guess 331/BOT=Bottisham, 331/CHV=Cheveley - I've not noticed any others, maybe they're in Suffolk or another time period)

I should have said Bs & Ds were rego'ed at the subdistrict office - obviously, if I'm living in Isleham, it's a lot easier to go 5km W to Soham, rather than 10km S to Newmarket.

======================

The only Isleham piece on FreeCEN is RG12/1295 (RG12=1891) E.g.,

1891 Census
Piece: RG12/1295 Place: Newmarket -Cambridgeshire Enumeration District: 4
Civil Parish: Isleham Ecclesiastical Parish: Isleham
Folio: 67 Page: 10 Schedule: 64
Address: Waterside Drove
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
PARR James Head M M 56 Coal Porter(Em'ee) Cambridgeshire - Isleham
PARR Sarah Wife M F 58 Cambridgeshire - Isleham
PARR Thomas Wm Son S M 23 Postman(Em'ee) Cambridgeshire - Isleham
PARR James Son S M 16 General Labourer(Em'ee) Cambridgeshire - Isleham

Thank you yet again, mgnv, that's very helpful and underlines how much detail there is left for me to learn, I think I need to study Cyndi's List