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Ancestry and find my past, there might be some records on family search i,ve not looked on there.

Helen

I have and nothing

Thank you for all your help I'll have to go now my granddaughter is shouting

Just to let you know that the Jewish Online Worldwide Burial Index is available on Ancestry and includes this

Name: Max Silverman
Birth Date: abt 1858
Birth Place: 81 Gadlys Rd., Aberdare
Death Date: 29 Dec 1923
Age at Death: 65
Burial Place: Merthyr Tydfil, Wales, United Kingdom
Cemetery: Merthyr
Cemetery Address: Glamorganshire
Cemetery Burials: 624
Cemetery Comments: CEFN-COED: see MERTHYR TYDFIL MERTHYR TYDFIL: Glamorganshire, South Wales Jewish cemetery is in Cefn-coed (pronounced Kevin-Coyd) {10952} Merthyr once had a large and prosperous Jewish community dating from at least 1850.

Thanks K I was wondering what info ancestry worldwide had if they had anything on Russia I'm on Ancestry but just the basic and I must admit I don't get the full use out of it think it's an age thing.
As I said I'm going to sign off now I'm at my daughters in London then in Manchester for a few days so I'm not going to be able to do anything now until Sunday

Sylvia

First,a couple of facts:
1) Post-Napoleon, Poland was a province of the Russian Empire thru just post WW1 (i.e., thru just post revolution)

2) You can buy BMD certs from the GRO, or from the local Registrar's Office where the event occurred.
FreeBMD is transcribing the GRO index thru 1983, but there are also some local indices online.
Although the GRO has a copy of the local rego entries, the abstracted details given in the ;local index don't always coimcide with those in the local index.

For local indices, see: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/local_bmd

especially
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/your-council/register-office/historical-searches


Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GARBER * Henry BAYARSKI Rebecca Manchester, Holy Law Beth Aron Manchester 503/5/47
GARBER * Henry BAYARSKY Rebecca Manchester, Holy Law Beth Aron Manchester 503/5/47
Where the first surname is a web link followed by an asterisk (*), it signifies that there are alternative entries in the database for this reference number.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1937
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GARBER Miriam SIMON Daniel Manchester, Great Synagogue Manchester 512/21/200



Births Jun 1860 (>99%)
SCHLESINGER Anne Sunderland 10a 461


Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)
HYMAN Moses Newcastle T. 10b 195
Schlesenger Annie Newcastle T 10b 195
Schlesenger Hannah Newcastle T 10b 195

1878 HYMAN Moses
1878 SCHLESINGER Hannah
Marriage venue - Church unknown
Register No./Entry No.
JLP2/24
[NuT RO don't list this church (JLP), but from the J prefix, I infer it's a synagogue]


Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
Hyman Leah Newcastle T. 10b 15

Births Jun 1878 (>99%)
Lukes Israel Whitechapel 1c 347

Deaths Dec 1910 (>99%)
Lukes Sarah 69 Newcastle T. 10b 63

Marriages Mar 1911 (>99%)
BARNETT Levi Newcastle T. 10b 228
Hyman Leah Newcastle T 10b 228
Levy Matilda Newcastle T. 10b 228
Lukes Israel Newcastle T. 10b 228



%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

It would be useful to have transcriptions of several 1911s
Specifically, those containing:


HOUSEHOLD HYMAN MOSES M 1858 53 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland

HOUSEHOLD LUKES ISRAEL M 1879 32 Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland
[This h/h has a Mrs S Lukes a=24 - the "S" needs checking to see if it might be an "I" or an "L"]

HOUSEHOLD GARBER ROSE F 1900 11 Manchester Lancashire

The births and marriages are ALL on freebmd!

You could also use the following site.........where appropriate

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

1911 census - household transcription
Person: GARBER, Rose
Address: 13 Dale Street St Chad St Cheetham Manchester


GARBER, Asher Head Married M 46 1865 Slipper Maker Russia Schlevitch Resident VIEW
GARBER, Blumer Wife Married
26 years F 48 1863 Russia Schlevitch Resident VIEW
GARBER, Hyman Son Single M 21 1890 Tailor Cheetham Manchester VIEW
GARBER, Jane Daughter F 13 1898 School Cheetham Manchester VIEW
GARBER, Rose Daughter F 11 1900 School Cheetham Manchester VIEW
GARBER, Fanny Daughter F 9 1902 School Cheetham Manchester VIEW
GARBER, Betsie Daughter F 6 1905 School Cheetham Manchester VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
24116 Reference:
RG14PN24116 RG78PN1386 RD466 SD2 ED1 SN93

Registration District:
Manchester Sub District:
Central Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Manchester

1911 census - household transcription
Person: LUKES, Israel
Address: 40 Waverley Terrace Newcastle-Upon-Tyne

LUKES, Jacob Head Widower M 63 1848 Tailor Maker Russ Poland Resident VIEW
LUKES, Rebecca Daughter Single F 29 1882 London England VIEW
MORRIS, Essie Granddaughter F 10 1901 Scholar Newcastle on Tyne VIEW
BELL, Lizzie Servant Married F 38 1873 General Domestic Servant Liverpool Lancashire VIEW
LUKES, Israel Son Married M 32 1879 Tailor Maker London England VIEW
LUKES, S Wife Married F 24 1887 Newcastle on Tyne VIEW

1911 census - household transcription
Person: HYMAN, Moses
Address: 64 Maple Street Newcastle-Upon-Tyne

HYMAN, Moses Head Married M 53 1858 Pawnbroker Poland VIEW
HYMAN, Annie Wife Married
33 years F 50 1861 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Sunderland Co Durham VIEW
HYMAN, Nathern Son Single M 27 1884 Cabinet Maker Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, Rockie Daughter Single F 22 1889 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, Louie Son Single M 20 1891 Upholsterer Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, Gertie Daughter Single F 18 1893 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, Jacob Son Single M 16 1895 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, Eittie Daughter F 14 1897 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, David Son M 8 1903 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW
HYMAN, Lily Daughter F 10 1901 Born At Newcastle on Tyne Northumberland VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
30583 Reference:
RG14PN30583 RG78PN1753 RD558 SD3 ED5 SN223


2 out of 14 children born during the marriage have died

May I just point out that familysearch has PARISH records............which, by definition, are gentile records

Hi,

Don't worry if the birthplace seems confusing ie Poland on one document, Russia on another.
Don't discount anything just because they don't appear to fit....its best to keep an open mind about birthplace (and spellings too).

My grandfather is listed as Russian, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian Pole, Polish Lit, depending on which document I'm reading. In actual fact he was born in Lithuania!!
However, since Russia ruled many of its neighbours at one time or other, it is common to see, for example, Russian Pole, or Russian Estonian - this was akin to, say, British Welsh or British Scot - ie it was used to define the ethnicity of those states or countries within another.
Sorry if it sounds confusing, but it doesn't stop there, because regardless of whether Russia was ruling, occupying, or what, there were also internal issues, wars and conflicts which caused borders to be constantly changing, as each town or city was won or lost!
My grandmother was born in 1900 in a Lithuanian town very close to the Polish border. The border moved that often I'm surprised grandma knew WHAT country she was living in!!

Have a look at
www.cyndislist.com
www.jewishgen.org/databases
www.genforum.genealogy.com (go to the country boards).
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com (scroll down to message boards).
www.immigrantships.net

K

but do note that the Miriam Garber that was posted by Ann of Green Gables seems to be completely unrelated ... she was -17- years old in 1911 and your Miriam was born in 1913

the births of Miriam and her sisters really are extremely easy to find on freebmd

once you find Miriam you know that her mother's "maiden name" ( MMN as Flick put it but you may not have known what that meant ) was Bayarsky

then you search for all births with surname Garber and mother Bayarsky to find the other four ( this will only give births starting in 1911 because before that the mother's surname was not in the index )

Helen's list missed one ... you can find it ! ... and the garbled name is Samuel

Dont know about Helen but I was using Ancestry BMD but the info should still be on freebmd as it is same source -you search for children using the fathers surname together with the mothers maiden name
Having trouble with Morris Sylvester -found a Morris Silvester died 1961 Jun Q Halifax wit est year of birth 1891 but he seems way too old for Muriel who was born 1920 Newcastle

There is a Maurice Sylvester aged 33 arriving from New York in Queen Elizabeth to Southampton 10/2/1947 -Company Director -heading for 25 Ballbrook Ave Manchester
If it is the right one maybe he got home just in time for the twins births!
It says his last permanent residence was England so it doesnt look as if he was born USA,although he could have been born anywhere

I think the Maurice Sylvester arriving in uk above is most likely
the one given a date of birth 19/9/1913 and died 1993 Aug Stockport

Here's a look up at FreeBMD

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1910 (>99%)
GARBER Henry Manchester 8d 338

You can click on the "Manchester" link, then the more info "here" link to see the villages, etc., in Manchester RD
You can click on the "338" link to see the other index entries that point to that page.
This naturally should include his spouse, but will also include all the other couples on that page.
In the GRO volumes, all entries on the same page refer to the same church (or synag) register.
(For Bs & Ds, this would be the same subdistrict register.)

Marriages Mar 1910 (>99%)
BAYARNKY Rebecca Manchester 8d 338
Finkelstein Millie Manchester 8d 338
GARBER Henry Manchester 8d 338
HORWICH Isaac Manchester 8d 338
[The image does show BAYARSKY - I've subm'd a correction to FreeBMD]


You can also do a free search at Ancestry thru 1915.
It won't let you view the image of the GRO index, though.



Exact Search Results - England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
View Record Name Spouse Surname Date of Registration Registration district County (inferred) View Image Order Record
View Record Henry Garber Jan-Feb-Mar 1910 Manchester Lancashire

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915 about Henry Garber
Name: Henry Garber
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1910
Registration district: Manchester
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume Number: 8d
Page Number: 338 (click to see others on page)


Here's another pair of look ups

Births Dec 1918 (98%)
Garber Samuel M Bayarsky Prestwich 8d 415


Exact Search Results - England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
View Record Name Date of Registration District County View Image Order Record
View Record Seaual M Garber info year city Lancashire

You can click on Ancestry's shopping basket and see Seaual's birth was rego'ed 1918q4 in Frestwich (sic) v=8d p=415.
(NB You pay an extra 13 GBP to have Ancestry place your order for you.)
Again, you can't view the image of the index, nor can you see the mum's Maiden Surname.
(Clicking on the view image link, or the view record link, sends you to a page that invites you to subscribe to Ancestry.)


On FreeBMD's home page, there's a view images link - this directs you to a klunky interface, but you can find (almost) all the GRO index page images thru 1983.
(In 1984, the GRO index went computerized, and there's nothing left to transcribe.)


Go to http://www.ancestry.co.uk/ You might have to do a free rego (I can't remember now - if you do, check the box to get their newsletter emailed - they sometimes announce that certain records will be free to access for a week or so - last week it was passenger records, and before that in the royal wedding week it was all marr records.)
I prefer the old style search so, from their main menu bar: Search - all records, and then the old/new switch appears just under the main menu bar, at far right.

Now - Search - BMDs incl parish
Featured Titles in this Category: - England & Wales, BMD Index - Updated!

Ancestry and FreeBMD have identical transcriptions thru 1915.
Response on Ancestry is a bit quicker, especially when wildcards are used.
The marr searches thru 1911q2 are often performed differently.
On FreeBMD, the whole page is treated as a single record, and all the other names are potential spouses,
so a Search for Garber with spouse=Rebecca (or Millie or Isaac) would all get the same Henry.
This can be very handy if, say, you've got the widow Rebecca Garber on the 1911 census.


Here's Helen's 1901 Siverman census.
Search - census, then 1901 Wales from the Individual Census Records.
Then enter the page identifier from Helen's post - rg13/5036/105/33
(show advanced search options - it's the last line)
You'll see all the names on the page - the interesting ones are

Exact Search Results - 1901 Wales Census
View Record Name Parent or spouse names Birth Year Birthplace Relation Residence View Image
View Record Max Silverman name abt 1859 Rus Foreign Subject relation city, Glamorgan
View Record Toba Silverman name abt 1861 Rus Foreign Subject relation city, Glamorgan
View Record Reuben Silverman name,name abt 1885 Rus Foreign Subject relation city, Glamorgan
View Record Sarah Silverman name,name abt 1887 Rus Foreign Subject relation city, Glamorgan
View Record Annie Silverman name,name abt 1892 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales relation city, Glamorgan
View Record Bessie Silverman name,name abt 1892 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales relation city, Glamorgan
View Record Solomon Silverman name,name abt 1894 Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales relation city, Glamorgan


You can't see all the details Helen can, although you could guess the missing relationship.
Repeat the search specifying head, then wife, son and daughter.
The useful thing here is that we can assume Max came over between 1887 & 1892 (incl).

Although we haven't gotten Reuben's b.cert, we might assume he's Toba's son, and she and Max were wed in Russia.
(I don't know what records a British synagogue keeps re bar mitzvahs, but he would be in Wales when he turned 13.)


You can also do a free search on FMP:
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/home.jsp

This is a person search by census reference - they give less info than Ancestry, but they do list the page in order.

Piece Folio Page Registration District
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Max Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Toba Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Reuben Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Sarah Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Annie Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Bessie Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW
RG13/5036 105 33 SILVERMAN, Solomon Merthyr Tydfil VIEW VIEW


I think FS doesn't have any jewish records, but they do have census records.
However, I don't know how to get the whole h/h (except 1881)
https://www.familysearch.org/

in particular
https://www.familysearch.org/s/collection/list#page=1®ion=EUROPE

I think the old 1881 URL gives a nicer display - try Israel Lukes' household at:
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

Flick - thanks re 1911 - I was trying to get a handle on d.o.immigration.

Back now

Thank you all so much for all the info you've found for me it all seems to fit with what I was told

Maurice Sylvester is a puzzle I'm trying to find more info on him as yet my daughter hasn't got back to me, all I do know is their name was Shclesinger but they changed it by deed pole but no one knows when??

Pity they all come from Russia/Poland

Hi
you could try ancestry


http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/offers/uk/learn/trial.aspx

they have a 14 day trial but remeber to cancel after 14 days or they will charge you

Thank you I've tried but I'm going to have to wait for more info from my daughter as I'm not sure where Maurice was born as he was married in Newcastle upon Tyne ??