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I am giving up now !!

HAVE loads of info but will keep it for a week or so and then bin it !!

Dea Xxx

Oh Dea give it up,

take a chill Pill (or glass of wine, that usually works for me in the circumstances). I think the son Thomas was really born Milan 1766, father Guseppi, mother Mary Magdaline. They only had one son, but he didn't live much past his 30's

OOOOOOhhhh !! Flip !!

I have that Milan birth !!!!!!

You are VERY naughty !!

Don't worry - I have give it up !!

BUT - Your Milan birth may just have sparked me into action now !!! (tee hee!!!)

It's all your fault !

Dea Xxx

Think if your read Dan B novel you'll find ALL the answers!

Dan B ???

Dea Xxx

Dea & Flip,
Sorry i have taken so long to get back to you, but I honestly thought I had posted this lot off. I can however say that our Thomas (Joseph's son) didn't live in Halifax or Yorkshire for that matter, he married a Mary Ann Turner from Thornham, Rochdale, Lancs and lived in Croft Warrington as a one time publican of a very popular Inn. There is a family grave in Croft Unitarian Cemetery where all the Houghton family from this period are buried, the Thomas in question lived to a ripe old age of 84yrs in 1943, his son Thomas passed away in 1938 age 53yrs.
The 1891 census for our Thomas is:
Thomas Houghton age 32.....wife Mary Ann (nee Turner) age 30
Herbert (son) age 6yrs.....Thomas (son) age 4yrs...Jane (dau) age 2yrs
Harold (son) age 1 yr. All residing in Croft Lancashire Reg.District Warrington
1861 census shows Joseph and wife Jane (nee Lathom) with children Elizabeth - Ann Jane - Samuel (named after Josephs father) and son Thomas! (Elizabeth married an Alfred Cooper)
1871 census shows Joseph, Jane, daughter Ann Jane and son Thomas.
1881 census shows Joseph, Jane, son Thomas and two grandsons John and Joseph Cooper the latter being the sons of Joseph's deceased daughter Elizabeth and Alfred Cooper. John died young and Joseph was later adopted by a family named Lloyd from Burtonwood Warrington. Joseph's wife Jane died in 1882 and is buried along with her daughter Elizabeth and her son John Cooper in "Walton le Dale Cemetery, Manchester Rd Warrington" From this date on WE have NO further sightings of Joseph Houghton!

Cheers for now! Lambert

How do you explain why the Parish Records show that the Thomas who married Mary Ann Turner had a father called John??


From Lancs OPC site !

Marriage: 16 Aug 1883 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Thomas Houghton - 24 Labourer Bachelor of Croft
Mary Ann Turner - 22 Spinster of Thornham, Middleton
Groom's Father: John Houghton, Labourer
Bride's Father: Thomas Turner, Fustian Cutter
Witness: John Houghton; Jane Houghton
Married by Banns by: Tho. P. Kirkman
Register: Marriages 1845 - 1936, Page 106, Entry 211
Source: FHL Film 2068610

Dea x

so this is your thomas who married mary ann

1901 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, Thomas
Address: 47, Rydal Street, Leigh
HOUGHTON, Thomas Head Married M 42 1859 Iron Machine Driller
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Mary A Wife Married F 40 1861
Thornham Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Herbert Son Single M 16 1885 Pork Butcher
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Thomas Son Single M 14 1887 Hardware Shop Assistant
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Jane Daughter Single F 12 1889
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Harold Son Single M 10 1891
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margaret Daughter Single F 8 1893
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Florence Daughter Single F 7 1894
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Fred Son Single M 4 1897
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Jessie Daughter Single F 2 1899
Croft Lancashire



1911 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, Thomas
Address: The Old Noggin Inn Risley Warrington
HOUGHTON, Thomas Head Married M 52 1859 Publican Croft Lanc
HOUGHTON, Mary Ann Wife Married
28 years F 49 1862 Rochdale Lanc
HOUGHTON, Harold Son Single M 20 1891 Iron Driller Foundry Croft Lanc
HOUGHTON, Margaret Alice Daughter Single F 19 1892 Waitress Croft Lanc
HOUGHTON, Fred Son Single M 14 1897 Farm Labourer Croft Lanc
HOUGHTON, Jessie Daughter Single F 12 1899 School Croft Lanc

note his occupation and address

1891 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, Thomas
Address: Stocks Brow, Croft
HOUGHTON, Thomas Head Married M 32 1859 Driller At Iron Works
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Mary A Wife Married F 30 1861
Thornham Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Herbert Son M 6 1885 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Thomas Son M 4 1887
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Jane Daughter F 2 1889
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Harold Son M 1 1890
Croft Lancashire

1871 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, Margaret
Address: Old Smithy Cottages, Southworth With Croft
HOUGHTON, John Head M 47 1824 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margaret Wife F 47 1824 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, James Son M 20 1851 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, John Son M 16 1855 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Catherine Daughter F 14 1857 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Thomas Son M 12 1859 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Ann Daughter F 10 1861 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Peter Son M 6 1865 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Joseph Son M 3 1868 Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margaret Daughter F 0 1871 Lancashire


1881 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, Peter
Address: Old Smithy Brow, Croft With Southworth
HOUGHTON, John Head Married M 60 1821 Lab In Foundry
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margt Wife Married F 54 1827
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, John Son Single M 26 1855 Driller At Foundry
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Ann Daughter Single F 20 1861 Fustian Cutter
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Peter Son Single M 15 1866 Ag Lab
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margt Daughter Single F 10 1871 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
MOSS, Margt Ann Grand Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
MOSS, Mark Grand Son Single M 3 1878 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Joseph Son Single M 13 1868 Scholar
Croft Lancashire

Thomas apparently not with family and this may explain why you thought he was the dyer. again check out addresses and occupations

a few of his siblings were all baptised at the same time


Baptisms: 2 Aug 1863 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Thomas Houghton - Son of John Houghton & Margt
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: 5 Yrs Old
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 96, Entry 768
Source: LDS Film 2068610

Baptisms: 2 Aug 1863 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Anne Houghton - Daur of John Houghton & Margt
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: 3 Yrs Old
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 97, Entry 769
Source: LDS Film 2068610

Baptisms: 2 Aug 1863 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Catherine Houghton - Daur of John Houghton & Margt
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: 6 Yrs Old
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 96, Entry 767
Source: LDS Film 2068610

Baptisms: 2 Aug 1863 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
James Houghton - Son of John Houghton & Margt
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: 12 Yrs Old
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 96, Entry 766
Source: LDS Film 2068610

Baptisms: 3 May 1868 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Joseph Houghton - Son of John Houghton & Margaret
Born: 22 Jan 1868
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: [Rector Wrote Last After Birth Date]
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 108, Entry 863
Source: LDS Film 2068610

Baptisms: 3 May 1868 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Peter Houghton - Son of John Houghton & Margaret
Born: 29 May 1865
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 108, Entry 864
Source: LDS Film 2068610

Baptisms: 25 Dec 1870 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Margaret Houghton - Daur of John Houghton & Margaret
Born: 20 May 1870
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Labourer
Notes: [Rector Wrote Last After Birth Date]
Baptised by: Thos P Kirkman
Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1905, Page 114, Entry 907
Source: LDS Film 2068610

and parents too

Baptisms: 8 Mar 1825 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
John Houghton - son of Peter Houghton & Catharine
Abode: Croft
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Thomas Hinde Curate
Register: Baptisms 1812 - 1941, Page 88, Entry 703
Source: LDS Film 1655876

Burial: 10 Oct 1846 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
Mary Aspinall - Base Daur of Margaret Aspinall
Age: 20 Mos
Abode: Croft
Notes: Base
Buried by: Tho P Kirkman Rector
Register: Burials 1834 - 1989, Page 2, Entry 10
Source: LDS Film 2068610


Marriage: 3 Jun 1847 Christ Church, Croft, Lancashire, England
John Houghton - (X), of full age Labourer Bachelor of Croft
Margaret Aspinall - (X), of full age Weaver Spinster of Croft
Groom's Father: Peter Houghton, deceased, Labourer
Bride's Father: Thos. Aspinall, Weaver
Witness: Hugh Sankey, (X); Anne Houghton, (X)
Married by Banns by: Thos. P. Kirkman
Register: Marriages 1845 - 1936, Page 6, Entry 11
Source: FHL Film 2068610

1851 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, John
Address: Stocks Brow, Croft With Southworth
HOUGHTON, John Head Married M 28 1823 Silk Weaver Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margaret Wife Married F 27 1824 Silk Weaver Croft Lancashire
ASPINALL, Henry Step Son Unmarried M 9 1842 Croft Lancashire
ASPINALL, Jane Step Daughter F 7 1844 Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Ellen Daughter F 2 1849 Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, James Son M 0 (1 MOS) 1851 Croft Lancashire

margaret's father
1851 census - household transcription
Person: ASPINALL, Thomas
Address: Croft Village, Croft With Southworth
ASPINALL, Thomas Head Married M 50 1801 Silk Weaver Croft Lancashire
ASPINALL, Ellen Wife Married F 48 1803 Silk Weaver Walton Cheshire
ASPINALL, James Son Unmarried M 10 1841 Croft Lancashire
ASPINALL, Henry Grand Son Unmarried M 9 1842 Croft Lancashire


1861 census - household transcription
Person: HOUGHTON, John
Address: Old Smithy Brow, Croft
HOUGHTON, John Head Married M 38 1823 Agricultural Labourer
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Margaret Wife Married F 38 1823
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Jane Daughter F 13 1848 Silk Weaver
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, James Son M 10 1851 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, John Son M 6 1855 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Catherine Daughter F 4 1857 Scholar
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Thomas Son M 2 1859
Croft Lancashire
HOUGHTON, Ann Daughter F 0 (10M) 1861
Croft Lancashire
HART, Alice Visitor Widow F 40 1821 House Servant
Croft Lancashire

" My thanks to all" for your input will deal with it on an individual basis now I have managed to locate things. Sorry! for being a bit stupid with this program but am still coming to terms with it!
Briefly you have picked up on the right Hougton family in places, and you have also discovered a load of Houghton's who are no relation! But having worked a long time ago in that area with my father in law (Herbert Houghton) I found out that the Houghton's in Croft and Winwick/Warrington are many and varied.
For Dea! Having to account for Thomas's father being stated (lan-opc) as John, no surprise here, we have certs. that tend to show our missing Joseph as being James as well. An Archivist explained to us long ago that this stems from using abbreviation's eg. Jas. Jos.. Joh..etc..
Will collect more detail and come back with it!
Cheers to all! Lambert

I fear your 'Archivist' has misled you slightly there - Whilst, I agree, the abbreviations, together with the sometimes 'dreadful' handwriting can be somewhat confusing and Jas (james) and Jos (Joseph), may be confused - the abbreviation as far as I am aware for John has always been Jno. - quite different.

The Parish Record SHOWS that the Thomas who married Mary Ann Turner had a father called JOHN !

This is confirmed by the many parish records which have also been found for Thomas's siblings - ALL clearly show that the father was John and the mother was Margaret !

PLEASE look at all the details above which 'prove' that his father is NOT Joseph!

Dea Xxx

Dea /LadyKira,
Am now coming around to your views and begining to think you are absolutely correct and our Joseph is now turning into the preverbial Red Herring, will continue checking but my sincere thanks! because I think you have provided answers to a five year old dilemma, the only thing for sure that we had is the grave stone in Croft Unitarian Cemetery and the known facts from then on!
Many thanks to all involved! I'll be back!
Lambert

keep us posted

Lambert ,

AT LAST - YOU HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!!!... Yippeeeeeeeee !!!

Now then, - have a good look through what is on here and forget about Joseph + his family.

Concentrate only on the Thomas who's parents are John + Margaret.

If anything at all is not clear, just ask !!

Let us know how you are getting on!!

Dea Xxx

P.S. I have 2 year old grandson here today but will be on properly later.

Dea x

Well done Dea & LK! I'm sure Lambert will be on the right track now - maybe the archivist should have gone to Specsavers!

It's so easy to go down the wrong track though, especially with people of the same name being born at the same time in the area.

Think a marriage certificate for the right Thomas should proove this beyond doubt.

still did not find him in 1881 though although i found his family.

LK, check out the one I found in Leigh for 1881 - posted 29/1/11. Ag labourer in Leigh, and there appears to be a subsequent tie to Leigh. He was right age and born Croft.