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For years i have been trying to find my grandfathers birth record and possible leads for names of his family, all i know was his mother died giving birth to my grandfather and my mother says he never spoke about his own family and they were to scared to ask him, my mother thinks he was born in mumbles swansea wales, he married my nan Olwen Davies in the early 1940s in cardiff and he joined the merchant navy between 1943-46 and returned by before 1947 when my mother was born, please help i am desperate to know about my grandfathers family. His death record is below. When i look in this site for his birth record i can't find it but i can find his death record it's so strange. Is there anyway we can find out what he did in the merchant navy? many thanks xx


Name Joseph William John
Year of Death 1986
Month of Death August
Registration District S Glamorgan
District Code 28
Registration Number 2046
Entry Number
Date of Birth 8-6-1918

Hi do you have any idea of his parents names or if he had any siblings?

found this possible birth record, dates are out but area fits

England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
about Joseph John Name: Joseph John
Mother's Maiden Surname: Lewis
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1917
Registration district: Swansea
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1905

No sorry thats the problem nobody knows any of his family names or siblings only that his father was from London somewhere i only know all of his childrens my uncles and aunties we just do not know his own family my mother said he never spoke about them. The only reason we know his birth date is because of the death record tells us and how we know this death record is correct is because we know when and where he died which was in Penarth home towers in glamorgan south wales. Do you think his merchant navy records would hold more information he told them about him? i have no idea how to find such records?

this might help for his merchant navy records

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/merchantseamanafter1917.htm?WT.lp=rg-3193

I wonder if he was born Josiah and changed it to Joseph??

Name: Josiah W John
Mother's Maiden Surname: Cockings
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1918
Registration district: Swansea
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 2039


Mary

Thank you Tempest i will have a good look in the link you provided me x

Do you have the marriage cert of Joseph and Olwen, it should give both father's names?

just having a look it might be this one but I can't get it to show the spouse name

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Joseph W John Name: Joseph W John
Spouse Surname: Davies
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1940
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 834

edit think it's linked to this one which has a smudge on the original

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Olwen Davies Name: Olwen Davies
Spouse Surname: John
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1940
Registration district: Cardiff
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: ??34 (think it's 834)
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

Wow Mary this record looks very close to his name Joseph and if this is true no wonder we can't find his birth record under Joseph if his real spelling of his name is Josiah, how can i know for sure?

many thanks x

Yes the second one is correct he married my nana Olwen and i do not have his marriage record

the Josiah record even has the same birth quarter, my grandfather birth month was June so i am even more ready to believe his first name must of been Josiah now, is there anyway we can match his birth with the death of his mother somehow using her maiden name and year, sorry if this is to much to ask

Michelle

Firstly you need to get their marriage cert to confirm his father's name.........that will tell you whether what I am going to post next is possibly correct or not.

Mary

Okay, this is (I think) your grandfather Joseph (Josiah) family starting with his parents marriage:


Name: Josiah John
Spouse Surname: Cockings
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Swansea
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1939
Find Spouse: Violet M Cockings

Birth of Violet:

Name: Violet Maud Cockings
Year of Registration: 1899
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Swansea
County: Glamorgan, West Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 921

Death of Violet:

Name: Violet M John
Death Registration Month/Year: 1921
Age at death (estimated): 23
Registration district: Swansea
Inferred County: Glamorganshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 978

Birth of sister of Josiah:

Name: Vera W John
Mother's Maiden Surname: Cockings
Date of Registration: Apr May Jun 1920
Registration district: Swansea
Registration county: Wales
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 2480

So Violet died soon after the birth of her daughter Vera - not after the birth of Josiah........these stories often get changed in the telling ;-)))

There are no other births for John mmn Cockings.


Mary

Wow Mary i phoned my mother told her everything you shown me here, she said it must be Josiah then after i explained everything to her you said and including her dying after giving birth to Violet not her dad you are simply amazing. My mother lives in Cardiff so i told her please go get the marriage certificate soon as possible. Please can i ask if you can further help us find Violets family her siblings and parents names please sorry to ask for so much this is so very special to u xx

Have had a look at the national archives and this is what is coming up for
John year of birth 1918

R143854 JOHN J W 05/06/1918 SWANSEA

Which looks like it could well be your grandad as the date of birth is 5 June 1918. You should be able to order them online. Last time i got the same thing it cost £3.50.

Kind regards,

Cathy

So this is who Violet married and my grandfathers father? i was told by my uncle howl that he came from London, is there anyway we can check?

many thanks xx


Name: Josiah John
Spouse Surname: Cockings
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1917
Registration district: Swansea
Registration county (inferred): Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1939
Find Spouse: Violet M Cockings

Michelle

I would go online and download the record from TNA that Cathy has found for you - hopefully it will give some more info about him, perhaps enough to confirm (or not) the info I've posted.

Mary

Thanks Cathy

I opened the link and i can't find how you found this record, please can you explain how i can find it to buy and download please, sorry for being a bother xx

Thanks Mary for everything you done for me so far you are a gem, in my bones i feel your records must be correct, i can't wait to confirm all of this. I just need to get hold of the TNA record but i am lost how to do it.

Hi Michelle,

Just go to the link that Tempest gave you and put JOHN in Surname box and 1918 in year of birth box......then it will come up with a list of records and your grandads will be the 4th one down

Click on ordering and viewing options
then click on
Order printed or digital copies of this record
then tick this box ,,,,Copy all pages in this document
then scroll down and click on continuue
You have to put your details in at this point I think but if you get stuck let me know as it's not the most user friendly website in the world!
Good luck!

Kind regards,

Cathy

Thanks Cath will do this now thanks for explaining x