Find Ancestors

I have been trying to solve this mystery for four years am still struggling! Ideas and suggestions (polite only please) are very welcome!

I am tracing our Webb family tree, starting with Kenneth Alfred Webb born in East Ham, 15th Feb. 1936.
His father was: Alfred James Webb - Mother: Sarah Elizabeth Stewart. Married 29 Oct 1932 St Matthews Church Canning Town, West Ham, Essex

Alfred James was born 29th March 1906, Canning Town, Plaistow his
Father was: James William Webb - Mother: Charlotte Prentice. Married Apr. Qtr 1898 West Ham Reg.

James William Webb was born Canning Town, Plaistow,13th June 1872 his
Father was John Webb - Mother: Elizabeth Hooker. Married 28 Sep 1863 Parish Church, Stepney, Middx

John Webb was born 1842 perhaps in Poplar London, his
Father: John Webb (stated on marriage certificate)

In various census the son John, a boilermaker, labourer, Dock labourer claims his birth was Poplar, London; or Bow, Middlesex. That means he could have been born in Essex, London or Middlesex. However I just cannot find his birth. Without his birth information I cannot find his father John.

The son John, our boilermaker, married Elizabeth Hooker in Stepney, London in 1863 declaring his father to be John Webb (labourer).

A John Webb signed as a witness to the marriage.

So in theory all I need do is find a census of John Webb with a son John born circa 1842. Did you know there was an unofficial law that states all John Webbs must name their first born son John! There are so many John Webbs in the census reports that it is overwhelming. I am tracking them down one by one but it has been a very long and tedious task.

I have made a list of every John Webb born in the UK for 1841, 1942, & 1843.

By way of the census returns I have been eliminating them one by one, when I find either the father was not named John or they ended up marrying someone, or spent enough time in their home counties so as to preclude their moving to the London area where I can find my John Webb with his wife and children. (listed below):

1901, 51 Scott Street, Canning Town, West Ham: RG13/1583 Folio 72 Page 15
John Webb (H) (M) 59, Dock Labourer, born Poplar, London
Elizabeth (wife) 55 born Gravesend and their children and grandchildren.

1891, 22 Hearn Street, West Ham:RG12/1321 Folio 75 Page 50
John Webb (H) (M) Boiler-Maker Ass. Born Poplar, London.
Elizabeth (wife) 42 born Chatham, Kent and their children

1881, 8 May’s Cottage, Plaistow, West Ham: RG11/1712 Folio 28 Page 46
John Webb (H) (M) Labourer born Bow, Middlesex
Elizabeth (wife) 34

Obviously there are several possibilities where I can not find the name of the father, ie lived with Grandparents or just the mother, or boarded with another family.

The other way I have attacked this problem is by finding his birth registration. There are two parish councils that would cover the area of his birth either Tower Hamlet or Newham.

Tower Hamlet have been unbelievably helpful and together we have compiled a list of all the possible Johns. I have purchased all the certificates that have a John father & son and so we can now positively say his birth was not registered with them.

Newham, was just the opposite. After endless letters and emails their only suggestion is to visit their offices and do the search in person or hire a professional to do it for me. As I live in Spain this is not really practical and after hiring several ‘professional’ people to do various tasks for me through the years I am not at all convinced I would have the right outcome without incurring a huge bill. I hired two separately to find my missing John Webb, sent them all the info and they promptly gave up!

John and Elizabeth had a large family:
John 1865, Joseph 1867, George 1869, James 1871, Clara Jane 1875, Eliza 1877, and Elizabeth 1879.

Most of these in turn had large families so there must be thousands of people who are related to this family. I only need to find one!

I have exhausted all my ideas to find either father John Webb who I would think was born roughly 1810 - 1820's but that is just a guesstimate!

GRO claim not enough information to find the son John’s birth.

Do any of these names ring any bells?
Can you offer any suggestions or have any other ideas that I could try,?

Sorry for the long post but have tried to give you all the info I have.

I live in hope
Jeannie

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about John Webb
Name: John Webb
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Spouse Name: Elizabeth Hooker
Spouse Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 28 Sep 1863
Parish: St Dunstan and All Saints, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: John Webb
Spouse Father Name: James Edward Hooker

this is the marriage, but the address isn't very clear for John...witnesses look to be a Mary Ann Parkes, and Ithiel? Paice, Price?

Chris :)

The address looks like

3 Burnley Street? For John Webb.

That's what I thought too, but doing an address search on FMP 1861 shows nothing!, googling brings up a Barnsley Street, which does come up on 1861 in Bethnal Green, nobody of that name though (Roberts family)

Chris :)

His birth may not have been registered.

Tree on Ancestry
Birth: 1842 - Bow, Middlesex, England
Marriage: 28 September 1863 (28 Sep 1863)
Death: Sep 1895 - London
Parents: John Webb, Sarah Webb
Spouse: Elizabeth Sarah Hooker

Bromley Street maybe as that is in the right place doing an addy search on FMP using just Stepney and then Trawling.

But he is not at that NO 3 on 1861

And I cant find any of them on 1871 at the moment..

Eliza Webb
Birth
02/08/1877 in 8 Mays Cottages Plaistow Death
1959

Same tree -direct line

???
1851 census
Name: John Webb
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Webb
Mother's Name: Sarah Webb
Gender: Male
Where born: Stepney, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: St Mary Whitechapel
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:11 Charlotte Street

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Whitechapel Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Household Members: Name Age
John Webb 46 occ shoemaker
Sarah Webb 47
John Webb 9
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1545; Folio: 475; Page: 19; GSU roll: 174775

Eliza Webb married
Frederick Plant
Birth
Mar 1876 in West Ham, Essex, England Death
Oct-Nov-Dec 1927

Eliza Sarah Plant 1899 – Rose Lily Plant 1899 – Emily Elizabeth S Plant 1902 – Frederick John Plant 1907 – Elizabeth Plant 1909 – Elsie Plant 1915 – 2001

Thanks for all the help. Its not John and Sarah as that John is a shoemaker. Bought the birth cert in hope but that son also a shoemaker went on to marry someone else
Thanks
Jeannie

Elsie Plant
Birth
1915 Death
2001

Living Davis Living Davis Living Davis Living Davis Living Davis Living Davis

1881 address search redefine current search
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation
Disability Where Born Original
census
image

WEBB, John Head Married M 38 1843 Labourer
Bow
Middlesex VIEW
WEBB, Elizth Wife Married F 34 1847
Gravesend
Kent VIEW
WEBB, John Son Single M 16 1865
Poplar
Middlesex VIEW
WEBB, Joseph Son Single M 14 1867
Plaistow
Essex VIEW
WEBB, George Son Single M 12 1869
Plaistow
Essex VIEW
WEBB, James Son Single M 10 1871
Plaistow
Essex VIEW
WEBB, Clara Jane Daughter Single F 6 1875
Plaistow
Essex VIEW
WEBB, Eliza Daughter Single F 4 1877
Plaistow
Essex VIEW
WEBB, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 1 1880
Plaistow
Essex VIEW
HOOKER, Alfred Boarder Single M 22 1859 Firemans Mate
Northfleet
Essex VIEW

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1712 Folio:
28 Page:
46

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
West Ham Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
West Ham Municipal Borough:
Address:
8, Mays Cottages, West Ham County:
Essex

just adding 1881...

If it helps:
John webb c1842
children were
John 1865 married Elizabeth Russell she died in childbirth of second son.
Joseph 1867 married Emma Springford
George 1869 bachelor
James 1872 married Charlotte Prentice
Clara Jane 1875 - can't find her marriage must be after 30 May 1889 (witness to brothers marriage)
Eliza 1877 married Frederick Plant
Elizabeth 1879 married James Chatterway
Henry 1880 still single in 1911 census

Where did Elizabeth Hooker come from?

Ellen

Elizabeth Hooker came from either Gravesend or Chatham according to her census returns

Jeannie

Parish Records Collection - baptism
Surname: Hooker

Forenames: Elizabeth Sarah

Baptism Year: 1846

Baptism Month: FEB

Baptism Day: 11

Mother: Elizabeth Sarah

Father: James Edward

Birth Year:

Birth Month:

Birth Day:

Place: Rochester

County: Kent

Source: St.Margarets Rochester 1813-1851 baptisms

This from Thames & Medway baptisms on FMP, with father James Edward...(just adding in case!)

Still no sign on 1871 Census though...

Chris :)

Her family moved to the West Ham area her father is listed as an Engineer on the marriage certificate for John and Elizabeth but as a painter on the census returns.

just to add, witness Ithiel Price was a Parish Clerk, at that time in Stepney.