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I have checked and it was Mercers Road Islington, and that agrees with your findings as it has Maria listed as birthplace Caistor, but with Charles birthplace as Soho London.

Re: A birth to the marriage of Herman R Panzer and Dora G Rossiter 1912:

Births Jun 1915
Panzer Basil T Rossiter Islington 1b 241

(It seems he could be a half-brother of your Bill, since his father was apparently Hermann Roland Panzer 1889 -- if HRP was your Bill's father.)


-- a Basil I Panzer was on the electoral roll sometime 2002-2007 but is not on the current list. There were no other occupants with him.

Don't let Charles fool you. ;) He was Carl (if not Karl like his daddy), and born in Germany.

1901 Address: 143, Blackstock Road, Stoke Newington
RODGERS, William Head Married M 27 1874 Postman Division 1
Scotland VIEW
RODGERS, Rosa E Wife Married F 26 1875
Clapham
London
RODGERS, William J Son M 6 1895
Islington
London
RODGERS, Rosa Daughter F 5 1896
Islington
London
RODGERS, Minnie Daughter F 4 1897
Islington
London
RODGERS, John Son M 2 1899
S Hornsey
London
WEDD, Gwendoline Lodger Single F 11 1890
S Hornsey
London

Christine

We have found reference to Rosa's marriage to a Pawser, but this again could be a spelling issue as it is difficult to determine in actuall Panser on the index page.
Hackney, 4th quarter, vol 1b page 763 header page 232. - we have ordered this in the hope it may at least close some loops

I guess unless we can determine whether HRP became Armyn Palmer, Bill's dad, then we are relying on coincidence.

1861


Civil Parish: Westminster St James

Charles Panzer 30 - Ancestry says born Sussex; image says Saxony
Sophia Panzer 28 - born Hanover
Chas Geo Panzer 4 - born Hanover
Hulda Panzer 2 - born Middx St Jas West
Max Panzer 9 Mo - " "

Charles is a tailor.

Maria Dyball is a person Bill remembers living with as a "maiden" aunt - elderly aunt - where do you think she fits into this as I cannot see the link, yet eviebeavie you have mentioned her in one of your replies?

But you said Panser! ....... we have to be able to reproduce the results, to assess them.

The quarter hasn't been transcribed yet, indeed.

Rogers, Rosa - Pawser - Hackney - 1b - 763

Yup, entered as
Pawser, Herman R
in the corresponding entry.
And yup, I'd say contemporary mistranscription.

You're sure that the 1919 birth cert says William George Roland *Pansie*? I guess it says it in at least two places, so I guess so. Again -- could be contemporary mistranscription.

I'm not quite sure how these things work, but can the original record -- the thing with the volume and page number -- be checked?

Would Bill have been christened?

1891 Address: 143, Blackstock Road, Hornsey
RODGERS, John Head Married M 64 1827 Army Pensioner
Marksbury
Somersetshire
RODGERS, Emma Wife Married F 50 1841
Colchester
Essex
RODGERS, Sarah Daughter Single F 20 1871 Dressmaker
Scotland
RODGERS, William Son Single M 17 1874 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, George Son M 16 1875 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, Thomas Son M 13 1878
Scotland
RODGERS, Charles Son M 11 1880
Scotland

She's Herman Roland Panzer's mother!

Marriages Jun 1888
Dyball Maria St Giles 1b 830
PANEER Charles George St Giles 1b 830
PAUZER Charles George St Giles 1b 830

1901 census
Charles G Garger 43
Maria Garger 43
Hermann K Garger 11

So depending on what Herman Roland Panzer was to your Bill -- father, uncle ... -- she could have been his grandmother or his great-aunt or some such, I would guess.


Here's an exciting thought. Hermann Sr's marriage to Rosa was bigamous because he was already married to Dora Rossiter ...

Hi Christine - not to be pushy, but Lorraine says she has all of Rosa's lineage and is in touch with her family.

And Lorraine, remember, it is a bit beyond coincidence -- your Bill actually knew Rosa Rodgers in Hackney as his mother.

My bigamy theory fits, because if it was found out, she would have reverted to being Rosa Rodgers. ;)

1891 Address: 143, Blackstock Road, Hornsey
RODGERS, John Head Married M 64 1827 Army Pensioner
Marksbury
Somersetshire
RODGERS, Emma Wife Married F 50 1841
Colchester
Essex
RODGERS, Sarah Daughter Single F 20 1871 Dressmaker
Scotland
RODGERS, William Son Single M 17 1874 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, George Son M 16 1875 Post Office
Scotland
RODGERS, Thomas Son M 13 1878
Scotland
RODGERS, Charles Son M 11 1880
Scotland

1861 Institution: Colchester Infantry Barracks,
RODGERS, John Head Of Family Married M 34 1827 Sergeant Army
Marksbury
Somerset

Births Sep 1882
Rossiter Dora Georgina Fulham 1a 249


Charles George Panzer's parents deaths:

Name: Amelie Sophia Panzer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 77
District: St Pancras (1902-1977)
County: Greater London, London
Volume: 1b
Page: 53

Name: Karl Hermann Panzer
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1830
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 79
District: Hackney
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 210


Same year, same quarter, different district. A Hackney connection, though.

Also with him in 1861 are his wife Emma daughter Charlotte age unclear and mother in law Sarah.

Christine - I have the impression that Lorraine knows all about Rosa Rodgers since she is in touch with members of her family. Lorraine?

1841 Address: Marksbury, Marksbury
RODGERS, Charlotte F 45 1796 Somerset
RODGERS, Louisa F 16 1825 Somerset
RODGERS, John M 13 1828 Somerset
RODGERS, Selina F 10 1831 Somerset
RODGERS, Silvey F 8 1833 Somerset
RODGERS, George M 6 1835 Somerset
RODGERS, Thomas M 4 1837 Somerset
RODGERS, William M 1 1840 Somerset

Marriages Mar 1860 (>99%)
Emmens Emma Colchester 4a 253
Rodgers John Colchester 4a 253

This looooks like the unreadable surname of m in law on 1861 census.

Hermann Roland Panzer's father was "Charles George" Panzer born in Soho (per 1901), who was actually Carl Georg Panzer, born in Saxony.

So this would be him, if it is credible (it's submitted by an anonymous Mormon):


Carl Panzner Pedigree
Birth: About 1830 Glauchau, , Zwickau, Sachsen
Marriage: 1857 Glauchau, , Zwickau, Sachsen


and these would be his parents:


Carl Panzner
Birth: About 1830 Glauchau, , Zwickau, Sachsen
Spouse: Clara Hedwig Graesser
Marriage: 1857 Glauchau, , Zwickau, Sachsen

Clicking on Clara's name at the LDS site gets you her parents, but that's as far back as it goes.