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How about Mary Richardson?


Marriages Jun 1894
Baker William James Liverpool 8b 234
LUCAS Fanny Liverpool 8b 234
? Richardson Mary Liverpool 8b 234
? Williams William Henry Liverpool 8b 234


That's the only candidate in that area in that time period.


Now, back to the questions.

>>> What was William's occupation stated to be on Louisa's birth certificate??

How does this batch look in 1901?


William Williams 33
Mary Williams 35
Mary E Williams 8
Thomas Williams 6
Margaret Williams 4
Mary Alice Williams 3
Georgina Williams 1


Someone (Georgina?) might not have survived childhood.

There's a Maggie and a Mary there.

1984 marriage William did marry Mary Richardson (lancashirebmd.org)

might be worth getting William Richard's birth cert to prove who his mother was

I will be back tomorrow cannot take anymore in tonight. but just want to say a big thank you to all of you i hope you continue to help me. If I ever sort this out it will champagne all round.
Cheers.
Jean

Before I go I am now going to try and buy a copy of William and Marys son William Richard Williams's birth certificate. I do have definate details of his birth date. Hopefully I will get an address and maybe Mary's former name and William's occupation in 1902. Fingers crossed everybody.

Cheers again

Good then.

Heh, _a_ William married a Mary Richardson.

It being an adoptive family and notihing known like father's name, we can't be too sure!

If that 1901 household looks right, we can try to track him back and get a father's name, e.g.

I mean, it's not like there are too many William Williams-s in the Liverpool area ... hahaha!

Oops, I wandered off in the middle of composing that message.

Good idea. Birth certificate. Then we pick up.

Birth cert states that William occupation was Painter and Paper hanger (Journey Man)

Also one of Mary and Williams sons was called William Richard Williams born Sept 1902 b.West Derby.

Thanks for your help.

this may be totally irrelevant but this Wm's brother is a paperhanger in 1881. As he was a journeyman in 1903 he should also have been a paperhanger in 1901 - probably journeyman as apprentices usually were not allowed to marry during their apprenticeship. My dad's apprenticeship as a painter & decorator was for 5 yeras.

Elizth. WILLIAMS Head W Female 49 Wexford, Ireland Charwoman
John J. WILLIAMS Son Male 14 Lpool Paperhanger
Margrt. WILLIAMS Daughter Female 9 Lpool Scholar
Wm. WILLIAMS Son Male 6 Lpool Scholar
Sarah CAVE Lodger W Female 60 Fazakerley Charwoman
Jane PERCY Lodger W Female 47 Wales Cook
Source Information:
Dwelling 92 Gordon St
Census Place Everton, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341877
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3660 / 58
Page Number 48

James WILLIAMS Head M Male 44 Lpool, Lancashire, England Painter
Mary WILLIAMS Wife M Female 40 Lpool, Lancashire, England
James WILLIAMS Son Male 9 Lpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
John WILLIAMS Son Male 7 Lpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
Wm. WILLIAMS Son Male 3 Lpool, Lancashire, England Scholar
Johana WILLIAMS Daughter Female 1 Lpool, Lancashire, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 42 Oliver Str
Census Place West Derby, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341887
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3706 / 60
Page Number 23

Unfortunately that William has a son William already.


The batch I was looking at:

William Williams 33
Mary Williams 35
Mary E Williams 8
Thomas Williams 6
Margaret Williams 4
Mary Alice Williams 3
Georgina Williams 1

with the Margaret (Maggie?) and Mary -- that William is a Labourer (Builders).

Close ... His neighbours are a Bricklayers Labourer and a Plasterer.

sorry missed putting it was also 1881 in the 2nd one and it was the son Wm's father's occupation I was looking at, because unless Wm was telling porkies if he was a journey man painter in 1903 he would also have been either a journeyman or an apprentice painter in 1901 and as father often followed son into trade....

making several assumptions here
if the Wm / Mary Richardson marriage is correct in 1894 then he would probably be out of his apprenticeship. Say his apprenticeship was for 5 yrs he should be on the 1891 census as an apprentice.
Assuming it was for 5 yrs and he started at age 12/14 that puts his birth about 1875.

Ah, and I missed that the HOH was James, lol.

Hey, his age (3 in 1881) matches up with the William with Mary (33 in 1901) I was looking at!

Their daughter Mary E is a tad old for an 1894 marriage maybe ...

What's the chance a journeyman painter was called a Builder's Labourer on the census? Not too high, I imagine.

Re apprenticeship etc -- or he could have married rather late. Born 1875 he would have married at 19ish. But he would be been *at least* that age, anyhow.

perhaps he was unemployed in his true trade and was working as a labourer

just noticed age 3 in 1881 makes him 23 in 1901! so probably not the right 1881

This is the William, Builder's Labourer, in 1901:

Name: William Williams
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

This is daughter Georgina (thank goodness for names that aren't Mary or Ann):

Births Dec 1899
WILLIAMS Georgina W. Derby 8b 578

Her birth cert would give her mother's name, for ruling out if nothing else.

Is that something that that Lacashire bmd site on line will reveal?

Duh. I really can add and subtract. Most of the time. Yeesh!

Oh, and 3 in 1881 makes him a little young for an 1894 marriage, lol.

btw --

"one of Mary and Williams sons was called William Richard Williams born Sept 1902 b.West Derby."

*His* birth cert will give Mary's name for sure!

Except ... these are the Sep Q William Williams births in W Derby:

Williams William Cernyw W. Derby 8b 612
Williams William Edward W. Derby 8b 418

and these are the Dec Q births:

WILLIAMS William W. Derby 8b 296
WILLIAMS William Ernest W. Derby 8b 266
Williams William Robert W. Derby 8b 667

?

unfortunately not - she is not there but L'pool is an area where coverage is a bit patchy. Now if she had been born in Oldham or Preston......