Find Ancestors

I have a birth certificate of my Mothers. She was adopted and I am not sure whether it is her Original cert or Adop cert. Have been informed by The General Reg Office that they only kept Adoption certs from 1927 and therefore couldn't say which one it was. Could anyone suggest how I can find out. There is confusion regarding the names of parents of the cert.

Regards

Hi,

I am certainly not an expert on this but have you looked at the GRO reference for this cert to see if there is a cross reference (which often happens with later adoptions)??

Dea x

First thanks for your help. I really do appreciate it

.Sorry but I dont know what you mean by cross referenece.

I know my mums Birthday was 10th Sept 1903. And found the following ref under births for last quarter 1903 ....8b 625 qhich tallys up. My Mums names is Louisa Williams.

regards
Jean

Thanks for your help.

Date of birth on Cert 10th Sept 1903.

The parent names are William Williams (who was also the name of the man who brought her up) The mothers name on Cert. is Louisa Williams. This completely confused me me because the William Williams we knew as our grandad, his wife was called Mary Williams. Just another headache

regards
Jean

I think we have are wires crossed. mum was born 10th Sept 1903.

I am not sure whether adoptions where carried out before then but the GRO advised me that they never kept records on adoption before 1927.

thank again
Jean

Yes that is correct the mother and the daughter(my Mum) were both Louisa Williams. the mother maiden name was Johnson. It is a written certificate although not the original.

Sorry click off bfore I said thanks. I appreciate all you are trying to do for me.

cannot find a marriage for Williams/Johnson

perhaps William Williams wanted to rear the child and the mother put his name on the birth certificate so that he could??

Christine

Thanks sorry if I didn't quite understand.

So now it looks like this cert is the real one. Gosh! I wonder if my grandad also had a child with somebody else while he was married. Makes you think. Or maybe it was his sisters child. (same surnames)

Thanks... Thanks... Thank you for your help.

Regards Jean

How did you find that out or did you all ready have the paper work

Of course not thinking straight. Must be a senior moment I am having....

Cheers.

The cert I have is a hand written copy. Which was obtain on 8/9/1969. by my mother. It was sent from Somerset House London

Regards
Jean

Do you know when William Williams and his wife Mary, who raised Louisa Jr, were married?

It is sounding like William and Louisa were not married but they pretended they were because he chose to raise the child, presumably his child, but maybe never to acknowledge that fact.

I will place my bet on this being Louisa Johnson in 1901:

Name: Louisa Johnson
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Ireland
Occupation: blank
(the young woman above her is a servant, domestic)
Condition as to marriage: Single
Civil Parish: Liverpool


You know, I also wonder whether it wasn't a "formal" adoption in the only way there could be then.

A childless couple who wanted a child, an unmarried woman who wanted a family to place her child with. Best idea? Register the husband of the couple as being the father.

Is there an address on the birth certificate for the parents?

Look who is living just around the corner from that Louisa in 1901.


Name: William Williams
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Boarder
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Occupation: [something] Labourer
(the person above him, born in Ireland, is Dock Labourer, and someone else on the page is the same labourer as William, but I can't read either one)
Condition as to marriage: Single

Civil Parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul


Louisa is in Dale Street, district 3. He is in district 4.

Seriously there -- I just looked at Google maps.

She was at 29 Cockspur St. He was at 14 Vauxhall Rd. Assuming that was the south end of Vauxhall Rd. near the docks (which is where he would be), they would have been - literally - right around the corner from each other.

I would like to be delicate here ... Louisa was an immigrant of sorts, a young woman living near the docks, with no occupation stated on the census.

I once ran across someone I suspected of being an ancestor of mine in an earlier census, listed with a group of women in a lodging house in London, with a long bracket alongside their names and this notation:

"Refused to give the woman in charge of the lodging house their various occupations
Let beds by the night no chance of getting information the next day"

I wonder whether that Louisa on Cockburn Street, at least, might have fallen into unfortunate circumstances.

Two William Williams-s may have married Marys in Sep quarter 1903 in West Derby.

One may have married a Mary Hagan, the other may have married a Mary Ann Boyle.


Is your William Williams's occupation stated on the birth certificate btw Jean - as well as an address?

In 1901 there is this Mary Boyle, again in Dale St subregistration district:

Name: Mary Boyle
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Relation: Servant
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
District 5

There were others too, of course.


I'm also not quite clear on whether William Williams and Mary had other children of their own.

Questions for when you come back, Jean, just to organize them:

Is there an address on the birth certificate for the parents?

Is your William Williams's occupation stated on the birth certificate?

Did William Williams and Mary have other children of their own (or adopted)?

Thank you so much you have been busy thanks.

Yes! The cert states that my mum was born at 107 Townsend Lane W.D. and also states that was her mothers Louisa's residence,Louisa also registered the birth. So maybe she chose to put Williams name on it. Maybe she just used that address. I know she wasn't at that add in 1901 I checked the add out.

And Yes! Mary and William had eight other children and I know the eldest two were called Emily and Florrie not sure what order the others came in but William Richard was born 1902 I am sure of that. I also think Maggie and Mary were born before 1903 the others I think were younger than my Mum as far as I know. So Mary and William already had a few children.

I know my Mum was very very young and hear say has it that she was left on the door step of William's House with a note saying it was just as much their responsiblity. Whether this was true God only knows. She never ever new her mother.

Thanks for all the help you are giving to me . I can tell you this has been one big headache trying to work it all out.
P.S.( Mary Williams former name was we think RICHARDS) not sure though.
Cheers. Jean

Ah. Townsend Lane. Williams, Johnson. Now I remember that thread.

Looking at 107 Townsend Lane at google maps on satellite view .. all I can make out is roof! The other two addresses no longer exist as such.


Ah, so she wasn't taken in by the Williamses right at birth.

If one of those 1903 marriages were your William -- you don't know who he and Mary were, dates and places of birth etc.? -- it might sound rather like he and Louisa had been together (if not exclusively) and he broke it off to marry Mary, and left Louisa in the lurch.

Just update my previous message