Find Ancestors

Pat

Yes i do think its his mother and maybe she came over for the wedding?Or it could be an older sister who had left home.The address-road matches the marriage cert that you have so this is why i thought this 1 looked good.The census where they are living a few doors away there is alot of confusion on the image as Ireland birthplaces were listed then "do"is used by the census writer.Then Yorks is placed and "do" used with householders after that.I do hate it when they do this cos i have seen many mistakes when this is done.

Pat

Also with reference to ages on the census these are listed as abt.Ages and birthyears were not so important as they are today,quite often people were not sure how old they were and when the Head of house was completing these records for large familes they can often be out.I guess i am used to these and it never alarms me as i see so many records where birthyears are out.

Michelle

Pat

I wonder if this is his death?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1983
about James Durkin
Name: James Durkin
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Year of Registration: 1896
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 32
District: Bradford
County: Yorkshire - West Riding, West Yorkshire
Volume: 9b
Page: 60 (click to see others on page)

Michelle,

The death date for James looks good, i've spent the afternoon looking for John's death and found one for 1882 Oct-Dec aged 38, in Bradford but not really sure if it's him or not - could have died just before the wedding! But like you have looked again and can't seem to find him on the censuses Have dropped a note to Inis to see if John died in Ireland and if he could see when they came over here, also if he could look up birth of James.

I suppose until I have a copy of James birth cert. I'm going to be a bit stuck
although I found some handwritten notes in pencil where i seem to think that his mother's name was Bridget, trouble is I can't remember why I thought that!!

Also the address for James on the marr. cert is 56 Duncan Street, not Longcroft Place, what made you think that? am sure I put Duncan St.

Pat.

Michelle,

Have a look at Inis thread - above this one - info on Durkin Clan Great isn't it and so quick in replying. Now I just have to make sense of it as I've never seen this sort of info before.

Pat

Pat

Sorry i got confused with address on the 1891 where James was living with relatives and poss James and Annie few doors away wasn't it the same road as the 1881 i found?
I would bite the bullet-if you can afford too and get the death cert for 1896 and see if its your James.
Saw Inis's post and their are a few to go on,i wonder why you had Bridget written down?

Michelle

Michelle,

I kept getting confused with the same names and same streets before I posted this thread - mind boggling at times isn't it?

What other info would I get from death cert. - Would it give me his dob? I don't know when they started putting that on death certificates.

Pat

Pat

Not 100% on this but i think-

Date and place of death.
Age.
Occupation.
Cause of death.
Name and address of the person informing
the registrar of the death

Again these are as accurate as the informer-ie the person registering the death.It would have been Annie i presume who registered it if it was his death cert.I think you are at a brick wall and any little bits of info will help to build a picture and this can sometimes mean taking risks on certs that might not be right,worth £7 though i would say.

Michelle

Michelle,

Yes I'll phone Bradford records in the morning, they're very good, and usually send by return, so if I ring early would have it back for Fri/Sat.

The info that Innis sent through - I may seem a bit stupid but how will I be able to actually check it against what I know - which isnt a lot a present. I'm presuming that Durkin sometimes gets spelt DURKAN in Ireland. The baptisms seem the most likely dates that would tie in with his marriage cert of 1882. what do you think?

Pat

Hi Michelle,

Wonder if you have time to look at the 1871 census, for George & Elizabeth BARLOW, please?

I am expanding the family members on the other info you gave me, and feel their could be 1 or 2 other offspring, from their marriage in 1862 up to their daughter Ann, born in 1865.

George Barlow 18 m. Elizabeth BANKS 24 1862 St Peter, Liverpool

From 1881 census.
George Barlow Head m. 37 Wavertree, L’Pool. Occ. Whitesmith
Elizabeth Barlow Wife m. 42 Wavertree, L’Pool. Whitesmith Wife
Ann Barlow Dau. 16 Wavertree, L’Pool. Laundress Unemployed

The help you give us is just great and is so much appreciated!!!

Regards & thanks,

James

Hi Michelle

Would you be able to look up Henry Meaking c1900, died in 1959- he was from the Birmingham area and married Elsie Giles - they had 2 daughters Elsie and Renee Rose Meaking. I am trying trace his parents and siblings if he had any? I was told by my family members that his mother was called Florence, but I could only see a Henry Meaking from Birmingham that had Alice as his mother? So i'm not sure if that was just an educated guess at florence. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thanks xx

Hi Michelle
Would you be kind enough to do a 1901 Census lookup for the following please...
William Monkman b.1900 South Shields Durham

believed to be living in the Durham area but have no other info!

Many thanks
Nettie

Pat

I thought the baptism's looked best too.To be honest Irish Ancestry is not my area of expertise so i can't really adivse other than to perhaps ask Inis what he thinks.It is quite normal for spelling of surname to be different in another country and i have seen this before.Its such a shame they don't list the place of birth in Ireland of James on the census records.This would have helped alot.I am wondering whether it might be an idea to look back at the family the possible James father was staying with on the 1881 to see whether it lists on any census records what part of Ireland they were from.They were listed as cousins to the possible James i found.I really wish i knew more about Irish Ancestry to help you but i have no Irish ancestors in my tree so i have never had to cover this area and hence why i help with English,Wales and Scottish census records.

I have googled and this is my findings.

Durkin Name Meaning and History
Irish: reduced Anglicized form of Gaelic Mac Duarcáin ‘son of Duarcán’, a byname representing a diminutive of duairc ‘surly’.
Polish: from Russian Durkin, from durak ‘fool’, ‘idiot’.

The names Durkin, Durcan and Dorcan in Ireland are all derived from the native Gaelic O'Duarcain and MacDuarcain Septs that were located in Connaught Province in the West of the country and especially in County Sligo. Gurkin is another variant sometimes used as an anglicized form of these Sept names

Also maybe worth contacting

For Irish births, marriages and deaths after 1864 and Church of Ireland marriages since 1 April 1845:

General Register Office

8-11 Lombard Street

East Dublin 2, Ireland

Irish Vital Records before 1864 are held in Parish Registers. Most of these have been microfilmed up until 1880 and are available at:

National Library

Kildare Street

Dublin 2, Ireland

Northern Ireland Vitals

The General Register Office

Republic of Ireland Vitals

The General Register Office

While no complete set of census returns survives for the period before 1901, there are two record classes which provide partial substitutes:

The Tithe Applotment Books were compiled between 1823 and 1837 in order to determine the amount which occupiers of agricultural holdings should pay in tithes to the Church of Ireland (the main Protestant church, and the church established by the State until its dis-establishment in 1871). There is a manuscript book for almost every parish, giving the names of occupiers, the amount of land held and the sums to be paid in tithes. The books for Northern Ireland are in the Public Record Office of Northern Ireland (PRONI) but there are copies in the National Archives.

The Primary Valuation (also known as Griffith's Valuation) was published between 1847 and 1864. There is a printed valuation book for each barony or poor law union, showing the names of occupiers of land and buildings, the names of persons from whom these were leased and the amount and value of the property held. These records are available to consult on microfiche in the Reading Room of the National Archives.

The following finding aids to the Tithe Applotment Books and Primary Valuation are available to consult in the Reading Room:

List of the Tithe Applotment Books arranged by parish;
List of the Primary Valuation arranged by county;
Combined list of the Tithe Applotment Books and Primary Valuation arranged by county, barony and civil parish;
A CD-ROM index to the Tithe Applotment Books for counties Antrim, Armagh, Londonderry/Derry, Down, Fermanagh and Tyrone, as well as to the Primary Valuation for all Ireland is held in the Genealogy Service Room in the National Archives;
Indexes of Surnames in the Primary Valuation and Tithe Applotment books (one or more volumes per county and sets of microfiche for certain counties).

Try this site too

http://www.censusfinder.com/ireland.htm

Sorry i can't help : (

James

Hi there!Here is the 1871 you requested.

1871 England Census
about George Barlow
Name: George Barlow
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Wavertree
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
George Barlow 27
Elizabeth Barlow 32
Ann Barlow 6
Richard Barlow 3
Mary Barlow 1

1871 England Census
about Elizabeth Barlow
Name: Elizabeth Barlow
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: George
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolton
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
George Barlow 27
Elizabeth Barlow 32
Ann Barlow 6
Richard Barlow 3
Mary Barlow 1

1871 England Census
about Ann Barlow
Name: Ann Barlow
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Wavertree
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
George Barlow 27
Elizabeth Barlow 32
Ann Barlow 6
Richard Barlow 3
Mary Barlow 1

1871 England Census
about Richard Barlow
Name: Richard Barlow
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
George Barlow 27
Elizabeth Barlow 32
Ann Barlow 6
Richard Barlow 3
Mary Barlow 1

1871 England Census
about Mary Barlow
Name: Mary Barlow
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Liverpool
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: West Derby
Sub registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 49
Household Members: Name Age
George Barlow 27
Elizabeth Barlow 32
Ann Barlow 6
Richard Barlow 3
Mary Barlow 1

George a Whitesmith

Address 4 Number 2 Court,Dexter Street

James

It is possible that their were other children before Ann but they may have died?I had a look at deaths and a few possible but their no details given to know if they belonged to George and Elizabeth.You do normally expect within a year or so a child...but maybe Elizabeth had problems conceiving at first?

Michelle

Caroline

Hi i looked at this the other day when you requested help and like you can only see the Henry with mother Alice.

Looking at births for 1900 only 1

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Henry Meaking
Name: Henry Meaking
Year of Registration: 1900
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Aston (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 445 (click to see others on page)

near 1900

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index: 1837-1983
about Henry Charles Meaking
Name: Henry Charles Meaking
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Aston (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d
Page: 216 (click to see others on page)

So the 1900 listed above would be the 1 with mother Alice.

To go further with this my advise would be to send for the marriage cert.This will show father's name and occupation and you can match this against the 1901 record with mother Alice and if father is listed as Edwin then you will know that is your Henry.If it doesn't then we will have father's name and occupation to help us on the 1901 and also a more exact birthyear as the cert will show his age at marriage and will also show any witnesses to the marriage.
I wonder if family got confused cos the 1901 shows Henry is West Bromwich reg area and there is a birth in 1907 of a Florence Meaking maybe poss sibling of Henry???Also you mentioned a daughter Rose to Henry and Elsie-there is a sibling Rose of the Henry on the 1901.
When you get cert and you need help let me know.

Michelle

Nettie

Here is the 1901 you requested

1901 England Census
about John Thos Monkman
Name: John Thos Monkman
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth E
Gender: Male
Where born: No Shields, Northumberland, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
John Thos Monkman 43
Elizabeth E Monkman 35
Minnie Monkman 8
Albert Monkman 5
George Monkman 3
William Monkman 1

1901 England Census
about Elizabeth E Monkman
Name: Elizabeth E Monkman
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John Thos
Gender: Female
Where born: No Shields, Northumberland, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
John Thos Monkman 43
Elizabeth E Monkman 35
Minnie Monkman 8
Albert Monkman 5
George Monkman 3
William Monkman 1

1901 England Census
about Minnie Monkman
Name: Minnie Monkman
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Thos
Mother's Name: Elizabeth E
Gender: Female
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
John Thos Monkman 43
Elizabeth E Monkman 35
Minnie Monkman 8
Albert Monkman 5
George Monkman 3
William Monkman 1

1901 England Census
about Albert Monkman
Name: Albert Monkman
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Thos
Mother's Name: Elizabeth E
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
John Thos Monkman 43
Elizabeth E Monkman 35
Minnie Monkman 8
Albert Monkman 5
George Monkman 3
William Monkman 1

1901 England Census
about George Monkman
Name: George Monkman
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1898
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Thos
Mother's Name: Elizabeth E
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
John Thos Monkman 43
Elizabeth E Monkman 35
Minnie Monkman 8
Albert Monkman 5
George Monkman 3
William Monkman 1

Continue....

Hi michelle - thanks ever so much - this is what i thought, i think i may have a match - i'm going to try and get the marraige cert. Thanks a million xx caroline

Nettie

1901 Continued....

1901 England Census
about William Monkman
Name: William Monkman
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Thos
Mother's Name: Elizabeth E
Gender: Male
Where born: South Shields, Durham, England

Civil Parish: South Shields
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: South Shields
Sub registration district: South Shields
ED, institution, or vessel: 68
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
John Thos Monkman 43
Elizabeth E Monkman 35
Minnie Monkman 8
Albert Monkman 5
George Monkman 3
William Monkman 1

John a Mariner Donkeyman
Incase you need a definition of Donkeyman:

"The "Donkeyman" is the crew member whose job is to deal with the operation and maintenance of any and all assorted machinery other than the ship's main engines." while other information says his duties would include assisting with the main engines.

While at sea donkey engines could be used to operate the anchor windlass and bilge pumps. He could also be called on to perform the duties of Fireman or Greaser. And from what I can find, it was not unusual for the Donkeyman to do watch duties, as you suggested. A "jack of all trades" as one might say. On some ships the "Donkey engine/boiler" could be used to supply emergency propulsion. Running steam engines was a dangerous job and that is where his real knowledge and skills was of great importance, even though there was down time while at sea.

Address looks like 18 Frances Street

Hope info is useful to you.

Michelle : )

Tracy

Do you know if Mark had a middle name?I found this marriage record

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Mark Edward Sheppard
Name: Mark Edward Sheppard
Year of Registration: 1908
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Bristol
County: Avon, Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 195 (click to see others on page)

Isabella Maud A Fry 1908 Bristol Avon, Gloucestershire
View Record
Herbert William Lovell 1908 Bristol Avon, Gloucestershire
View Record
Mark Edward Sheppard 1908 Bristol Avon, Gloucestershire
View Record
May Wheeler 1908 Bristol Avon, Gloucestershire


Did see a birth with mother's maiden name Wheeler so poss that this Mark married May.
You would need to obtain cert if you think this is him to confirm both father's name and which woman he married.

Other than this 1 is a later 1 in 1925 in Gloucestershire area

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1983
about Mark Sheppard
Name: Mark Sheppard
Year of Registration: 1925
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Spouse's Surname: Underwood
District: Bristol
County: Avon, Gloucestershire
Volume: 6a
Page: 506 (click to see others on page)

Not alot marriages showing and these are the only 2 in 1900's!Between 1905-1915 only the 1908 record.

With regards to death unless you have an approx year of death it would be too larger search.Ancestry is indexed till 1920's then after that i would have to search quarter by quarter and year by year which would take many hours.
Do you have any further info on him?

Michelle