Military Chat

I have just found out that my Great Grandfather was a sergeant in the 1st Worcestershire regiment this would have been during the first world war as he was a sergeant in 1916 when my grandmother was born. His name was Joseph Harris born in 1885. How would I find more information as I can't seem to find anymore.

We look on Ancestry or Find My Past, mainly.

However, approx 60% of WW1 forces records have not survived, so there's a good chance there's nothing to find for your gr-grandfather.

Where was he born?

He was born in Warwickshire

There are some records for men named Joseph Harris, though mainly medal roll cards, which don't give enough info to identify the person definitely - ie - no DOB or birthplace.

None in speficially the 1st Worcestershire Reg.

There's this man, for instance:

Joseph Harris
in the UK, World War I Pension Ledgers and Index Cards, 1914-1923
View Original Image on Fold3.
Name: Joseph Harris
Gender: Male
Rank: Pte
Record Type: Disability
Residence Place: Smethwick, B'ham
Military Service Region: Midlands, England
Service Number: 51953
Corps, Regiment or Unit: Worcestershire Regiment
Service Branch: Military (Army)
Title: WWI Pension Record Cards and Ledgers
Description: Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number: 6/MH/No.10848
Next of Kin:
Name Relation to Soldier
Joseph Harris

But without being able to see the whole document, as I don't have a sub to Fold3, I can't say which battalion he was in.

Or this one, as another example - but again no DOB or birthplace, and no mention of which battalion, either:

Joseph Harris
in the UK, Silver War Badge Records, 1914-1920
Name: Joseph Harris
Rank: Sergt
Military Year: 1920
Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Regimental Number: 9577
Discharge Unit: Warwick
Discharge Regiment: Worcestershire Regiment
Badge Number: B84076
Piece: 3120
List Number: LA 0801-1100
Record Group: WO
Record Class: 329


There was a Joseph Harris in the 2nd Worcestershires, and one in the 3rd.
I don't see one where the 1st is specified.

And, as already said, the majority of WW1 records haven't survived in any case.

Who was his wife?
What was the name of the child born in 1916?

His wife was Elizabeth Hemmings married name Harris. Name of child was Rose Elizabeth Harris 30/1/1916.

Thanks for the extra information, Tina.
That often helps in searches for military records - but sadly apparently not in this case, as far as I can see.

Your Gr-grandfather's records seem to be among those which haven't survived - or at least nothing with any detail to distinguish him from other Joseph Harrises.

There is a brief outline of 1st Worcs in WW1 at:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/worcestershire-regiment/
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/8th-division/
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/23rd-division/

You can see what the 1st bn did on a day by day basis from the unit war diaries at:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/60779/

In right margin - "Browse this collection"
Regiment or Unit: Worcestershire Regiment Division: 8th Division
Piece 1723/1: 1 Battalion Worcestershire Regiment (1914 Oct - 1919 Apr)

1st Worcs was one of 4 bns in 24th bde (one of 3 bns from spring 1918 on, when accumulated casualities and manpower shortages caused breakup of a quarter of the army's bns to provide replacements for the rest).
The bde diaries can give a broader picture of bn's actions:
Regiment or Unit: Various (Infantry Brigades 8th Division) Division: 8th Division
Piece 1716/1-2: 24 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1914 Nov - 1916 Jun)
Piece 1717/1-3: 24 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1916 Jul - 1917 Jun)
Piece 1718/1-5: 24 Infantry Brigade: Headquarters (1917 Jul - 1919 May)
Piece 1719: 24 Infantry Brigade (1914 - 1916)

Following a search for wo95/1719 at https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
I think wo95/1719 is not the 24th brigade's war diary, but those of 5th bn Black Watch and 2nd bn East Lancs.
NB wo95 is TNA's archive reference for "War Office: First World War and Army of Occupation War Diaries".
(Other useful TNA references are the census references, viz ho107 for 1841 & 1851, and rg9-rg14 for 1861-1911 respectively.)

I don't have an Ancestry sub, and access thru my public library is problematic due to Covid.
My grandad was in the 447th field coy RE - part of 50 Div - and I got his units war diaries one Remembrance day (Nov 11) when Ancestry had a freebie for military records.
I would suggest you do a free registration with https://www.ancestry.co.uk/ so you can receive their free newsletter and announcements.
I would also suggest you do the same with https://www.ancestry.com/ - they commemorate on Memorial Day - the last Mon in May - and I have seen them give free world access to military records..

70% of WW1 records for BRITISH forces have not survived.

Joseph reg no 51953 was living at 45 King St Smethwick on his pension record and just says Worcestershire reg (FOLD3 record)

Thank you everyone. I was not getting very far with this one so i got his marriage certificate. Turns out the year he was born was wrong and he was older than originally thought. Born in 1866 as he was 46 when he married in 1912.

If you have his marriage certificate what is the name given for his father?

Kath. x

Hi Kath, his father's name was also Joseph.

??????????

Name: Joseph Harris
Enlistment Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1867
Birth Place: Alcerter, Warwick, England
Enlistment Year: 1885************************
Regiment: Worcester Regiment
Regimental Number: 1409
Attestation Paper: Yes

NO other military info for this man

As stated above, 70% of records for WW1 were destroyed

What was Joseph's occupation when he married?

Was he a bachelor?

This looks likely to be the one whose info I posted above

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Spring Hill, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

William T Gardner Head Married Male 29 1862 Labourer Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Helena Gardner Wife Married Female 28 1863 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Alice E Gardner Daughter - Female 10 1881 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Helena Gardner Daughter - Female 6 1885 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Nellie Gardner Daughter - Female 5 1886 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Ada Gardner Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Mary A Dimes Niece - Female 7 1884 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Joseph Harris Father In Law Widower Male 56 1835 Bicycle Maker Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Joseph Harris Brother In Law Single Male 25 1866 Discharged Soldier Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

NOT your man.

Name: Joseph Harris
Death Age: 85
Birth Date: abt 1866
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun 1951
Registration District: Meriden
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 742

Name: Grace E Harris
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar 1927
Registration District: Portsmouth
Inferred County: Hampshire
Mother's Maiden Name: Hammings

Births Dec 1920 (>99%)
Harris James Hemmings Fareham 2b 1056


1939
65 King Street, Portsmouth, Portsmouth C.B., Hampshire, England
Joseph Harris 02 Oct 1861 Male Retired Tailor Married 206 1
Elizabeth Harris 20 Oct 1891 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 206 2
James Harris 26 Sep 1920 Male General Labourer Single 206 3
The record for this person is officially closed.
Grace (Eileen) Swinscoe (Harris) 12 Feb 1927 Female At School - 206 5
Rose E Ogburn 30 Jan 1918 Female Cafe Work Married 206 6
The record for this person is officially closed.
Rosie Goff (Ogburn) 26 Jun 1939 Female Under School Age Single 206
2 further closed records

Name: Elizabeth Harris
Death Age: 82
Birth Date: 20 Oct 1891
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun 1974
Registration District: Nottingham
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Volume: 8
Page: 1053

Name: Joseph Harris
Death Age: 86
Birth Date: abt 1861
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec 1947
Registration District: Portsmouth
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 425

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/military_chat/thread/1389958

Ogburn
Rose Elizabeth
1916 - 2002
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England

Goff
Rosie Elizabeth Irene
1939 = 2013
United Kingdom Deaths 2007-2017
Gosport, Hampshire, England

He was a bachelor when he married in 1912 aged 46 occupation says warehouseman marine stores. Then in 1916 on my nans birth certificate his occupation says sergeant 1st worcestershire regiment.