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Thanks +++DetEcTive+++.

Rose

The corrected DOB was correct for John.

Births Dec 1903
Boardman John Dearden Chorlton 8c 850

1 January 1900 sounds like a DOB of convenience :-)

So we know that one of the 3 officially closed records was RKB and one was Sheila? so the question is who the other one was.

Adelaide was certainly a fad name around 1900. When I searched for births with given names Mar* Adelaide, there were countless of them. But would that not have been more likely English than RC Irish?

It seems odd that Madge and Michael 1930 were listed separately as Fry, but Anthony 1931 is shown as Boardman, Harry 1935 is shown (and was registered as) Boardman (mother Murphy), and Reginald 1939 was registered as both Fry and Boardman.

Madge's son Michael has to have preceded Madge and John's relationship. Was Anthony John's son only? Whither his mother if so?

Now you mentioned a Charles F Boardman in 1958. Do you know who that is?

Sheila married as Boardman? Do you know her husband's surname?

Mght she have married Riley? If so, there are several births in Manchester.

Someone at this site has in their tree

Sheila Boardman 1930 Manchester

There is no matching birth. ?

Oh Gosh you have all been so busy. Thank you so much for all your help.

So please may I clarify? We think the 2 closed records in the 1939 register would be Sheila and Reginald?

Antony Boardman was in 7 Canal Buildings Westminster in 1958. John Dearden Boardman joined him in 1959 along with My FIL Harry. There was also a Charles F Boardman living with them at this address in 1959. I have no idea who he was.

I do not know if Sheila married as a Boardman. I have now applied to Manchester RO for the birth certificate of Sheila M Fry born in Manchester in 1933 in the hope that this is our missing aunt. If so we can then move forward looking for her as Sheila Fry. My husband does not remember his Aunt's married surname. All he remembers is she lived in Orpington and had a son.

I am very interested in this info:

Name Marjorie Mary Murphy
Event Type Birth
Event Date Oct - Dec 1900
Event Place Cork, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1900
Registration District Cork
Volume Number 5

Although we have been told by a family that knew her in Manchester that she had a Cockney accent. However that could mean born in Ireland, raised in London.

So to summarise this is what I think happened:

Margery Murphy met a man who was a Sailor and supposedly died on HMS Hood. He was a Fry. They had a son called Michael Fry born 10 October 1930 in Lancashire. She assumed the surname Fry. Michael Fry died in 1990.

She then met the already married but separated John Dearden Boardman. probably sometime after December 1931.

JDB's estranged wife was already in a new relationship and gave birth to a son with her new partner in 1930.

JDB had a child named Anthony Boardman born 18 December 1931 living with him in 1939. Mother unknown.

Margery Fry formerly Murphy gave birth to Harry Henry James Boardman on 30 August 1935 at 17 Green Street, Ardwick. Her name on Birth cert was given as Marjorie Adelaide Boardman formerly Murphy. Father JDB.

Reginald Kenneth Boardman was born in Lancashire in 1939. Father JDB. Mother Madge Fry formerly Murphy.

After I mused about that birth, we got the 1939 info that Madge's birthdate was 1 Jan 1900 though. But that still sounds suspect to me. :-)

The one thing I would not put much stock in is the middle name Adelaide. It was an era when young women not infrequently fancied their names up. My grandmother Lily became Lilian after marriage because her husband thought Lily "common". My other grandmother had no middle name, but always wanted one and had decided on Mary. We saw a grandmother named Marion Lilian here who was born plain Mary Lily. Adelaide was definitely trendy circa 1900, but it still might have been an adopted addition.

The Cockney accent is an interesting tidbit to keep in mind.


The 1933 birth seems like a good candidate, given the mishmash of surnames everywhere else!



Oh, we cross-posted.

Is the story of the sailor something handed down in family memory?

When you say died on HMS Hood, you mean in 1941?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Hood#Battle_of_the_Denmark_Strait

This is the only Fry who died when HMS Hood was sunk

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2492681/fry,-john-colston/


Ordinary Coder FRY, JOHN COLSTON
Service Number P/JX 229360
Died 24/05/1941
H.M.S. Hood
Royal Navy


No age or family info, unfortunately, so not possible to identify his birth, apparently after 1911 when middle names no longer shown.

Is this Ancestry tree where the info came from??

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/25837285/person/1723129737/story?ssrc=

"John Colston FRY was born on August 21, 1920. He had one son with Margery Fry in 1930. He died as a young father on May 24, 1941, in Bavaria, Germany, at the age of 20, and was buried there."

DOB 21 Aug 1920

It makes no sense, of course, since he did not have a child at age 10.

Good grief, the tree even says that.

"When Michael FRY was born on October 10, 1930, his father, John, was 10 and his mother, Margery, was 30. He was married twice and had children with one wife and with another. He died on April 11, 1990, at the age of 59."

Supposedly, Margery died in Manchester, Jamaica. Nobody pays attention when they click what Ancestry offers.

"Michael FRY died on April 11, 1990, when he was 59 years old.
11 APR 1990 • 196 Woodhouse Lane, Benchill, Wythenshawe"

The tree is ridiculous. It does show Margery Fry as having another unnamed spouse and two unnamed children ...

It might be worth knowing what the tree owner's connection is though, if any.

Hello Joonie. I have been in contact with the SIL of Michael Fry. He told me Michael Fry's Father was supposedly John Colston Fry. So yes as far as we know the info you posted is correct regarding JCF and HMS Hood. They know little else of the family although they do recall Sheila Boardman. (MF's sister).

Have just checked this out. JCF cannot possibly have been the Father of MF as he was only 20 yrs old when he died in 1941. Which would have made him 10 years old in 1931 when MF was born. Another mixed up family legend.

Name: Michael Fry
Death Age: 59
Birth Date: 10 Oct 1930
Registration Date: Apr 1990
Registration district: Manchester
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 38
Page: 946


These are the people named Anthony who are deceased who were born on 18 Dec 1931

Anthony Grenville Baker 18 Dec 1931 Jan 1987 St Austell Cornwall
- birth reg Bridgwater Mar Q 1932
Anthony John Bentley 18 Dec 1931 Dec 1996 Aylesbury Vale Buckinghamshire
- no birth registration
Derek Anthony Brown 18 Dec 1931 Aug 2000 Salford Greater Manchester
- birth reg Barton I Dec Q 1931
Anthony Charles Grimes 18 Dec 1931 Jul 1987 Greenwich Greater London
- birth reg Finsbury Dec Q 1931
Peter Anthony Pitfield 18 Dec 1931 Sep 1983 Bristol Avon
- birth reg Poole Mar Q 1932
Anthony Noel Spillane 18 Dec 1931 Jun 1973 Paddington Greater London
- no birth (or marriage) (or in Ireland) registration


Ancestry tree

"Anthony M Noel Spillane (sic) was born on December 18, 1931. He married Flora Enid O Dymock in December 1957 in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England. They had one child during their marriage. He died in June 1973 in London, London, England, at the age of 41."
- no parents or birth record attached

There are three trees with Anthony M N(Noel) Spillane and that DOB, but no parents or birth info.

But Lainey, the info about John Colston Fry is not correct.

He was 21 when he died in 1941.

He did not have a child in 1930!!


Ah, you have edited your post above to say that :-)

There is no marriage to match this birth

Births Dec 1931
Boardman Antony mother Meagher Sculcoates 9d 253

and there are no other births with those surnames


Marriages Jun 1963
AHERNE MAY BOARDMAN WESTMINSTER 5C 715
BOARDMAN ANTONY AHERNE *WESTMINSTER* 5C 715

no births with those surnames but given his age, it could have been the spouse's second marriage


Name: May Boardman ? NO
Death Age: 63
Birth Date: 16 May 1931
Registration Date: Jul 1994
Registration district: Wigan
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Register Number: A50A
District and Subdistrict: 0182A

NO, she was Barton (1939 with that DOB) and married Edward Boardman


There is a Boardman birth in Westminster in the 1960s with no obvious matching marriage.

The child had the very poor judgment to marry someone named Smith ...

Unfortunately, there were 22 Boardman-Smith marriages 1985-2005, so identifying births is problematic.


Could someone have mixed up Anthony's birthdate either in 1939 or when he died?

Name: Anthony Boardman
Death Age: 65
> Birth Date: 18/10/1931
Registration Date: Nov1996
Registration district: Peterborough
Inferred County: Cambridgeshire
Register Number: B58G
District and Subdistrict: 3351B
Entry Number: 201

There is no other matching birth.

Hello Joonie,

I have ordered the birth cert for Sheila M Fry born Manchester 1933, and await it's arrival. Damn those Easter Holidays ;-)

Thank you for the additional information. I have ordered the Anthony Boardman Birth Cert from GRO. I am going to order the Anthony Boardman/Aherne marriage cert in the hope it will shed more light.

I will keep this post updated as soon as I receive the Certs.

Thank you.

Antony Boardmans birth certificate has arrived. Born 18 October 1931 at The Municipal Maternity home(Salvation Army) Sculcoates Kingston Upon Hull. Father JDB. Mother Madge Boardman formerly Meagher. Fathers occupation House Plumber of Salvation Army home. Chapel Lane Hull. Mothers address Salvation Army Ho e Chapel Lane Hull.

So would everyone think this is the same Mother? As Harry and Reginald.? Cannot believe she has yet another surname.

Can there really have been another John Boardman + Madge couple?! :-D

Occupation plumber certainly matches. So gotta be the right John. Did he pick up a different Madge along the way? My gut says no.

He travelled for work during hard times in the early 30s? And Madgea resident there as an 'unwed mother' at the time of the birth. They had met elsewhere, and she went to the maternity home where he worked when she got pregnant? ??

Still no sign of her origin ...

I wonder whether 'Madge' was a nickname that she 'back-formed' to Margery/Marjorie, but her name was actually something else altogether ...

Throwing this into the mix:

Births Dec 1930
Meager Michael G Fry Stepney 1c 190

Can't see any sign of him later.

Rose

There's a Sheila M Boardman who marries a Walker in Bromley district in 1956. There is a birth for a boy in the neighbouring district in 1965.

Rose

Two people appear to have the son in their trees. Might be worth contacting them.

Rose

Joonie, I am totally confused. How on earth do I name her on my family tree? Meagher, Murphy, Fry, Boardman, what on earth was this woman up to?

I too am confused as to why they were both in the salvation Army Maternity home. What's that all about?

Hello Rose, Thank you. That has to be the Half brother as I now have been made aware he was born in Whitechapel 1930.

I will pursue this line too.