General Chat

I have stated my thoughts on many threads and still say this couple acted very oddly for people whose daughter had supposedly been snatched from her bed.
As for washing cuddle cat, I didn't know that, I don't read much about the case, only what is mentioned on these threads, and what I see on tv. and what I see is a cold and unemotional pair. One things always niggles me is that Madeleine's mother despite being a socalled devout Catholic etc still turns up at the church in sleeveless strappy tops. I always thougth it was expected that a worshipper would respect the church by not baring their shoulders etc inside the church, so why does she never have a wrap or something to cover herself? Surely she must know the 'rules' and have something suitable to wear, she does have clothes with sleeves etc.
My only thoughts and sympathy have been for Madeleine and I still hope she is found alive and well, but then again, maybe the emotional trauma she has gone through if she is found, would have been too much for her. I hate to think of her dead tho, bless her heart, what did she ever do to deserve such a dreadful twist to her life, and what will be the effect of all this on the twins.
Liz

the photo-- don't they look happy!!!
i would be in bits!!

something not right here!!!!!

Chris.

Exactly, not the faces of people in torment over a lost little girl!

It is not clear whether the evidence from the hire car is actual traces of blood or just the indication from the dog that there was blood there which is incredibly unreliable evidence.

If there was blood then it would be presumably be very small traces. The UK police use techniques to get DNA from very small samples but only one other country uses this technique because it is not reliable - the FBI for example will not use the technique.

Won't a child's DNA be very similar to the parents so can you identify whether a small trace of DNA is from the parent or child? There was a case on a BBC1 programme a couple of years ago about a baby's body that was found in a block of concrete. A young couple came very close to being charged with the murder on DNA evidence and with DNA being claimed to be infallible they could easily have spent many years in prison. Fortunately they were able to prove that she could not possibly have been mother of the baby and it looked very much as if her mother had had the baby and killed it.

If they used a sedative then would not the Portuguese have examined the apartment for things like that routinely right at the start of the investigation?

If the child was found dead in the apartment then it would have needed the cooperation of all present to remove the body to a place of concealment. Where would it be concealed when all present would expect their apartments, cars etc to be searched very early in the investigation.

If the Portuguese police are suggestion that the body had been in the hire car then it would have to be concealed for three weeks in a hot climate. That would suggest that it would be wrapped well and sealed probably so how would blood be released into the car?

How did they use the hire car when they had the world's press following them as well presumably Portuguese police surveillance. Surely would have got someone else to do it for them?

One paper today is suggesting the police repeatedly showed the mother a video of the dog "finding" blood in the car not that they couild use that in court as evidence.

The mother being intereviewed first and until 2 am suggests a crude attempt to "break" her, I can't imagine the British police being allowed to interview someone for so long.

The parents seem very intelligent, they must know that their telephone calls are being monitored and probably their apartment and car bugged.

Perhaps they do have some evidence, the Portuguese police seem to have been leaking things to the press so I am sure they would have made sure it was known in order to get a confession.

There are now worries that if they are charged the two twins will be taken off them by social services.

If, as most of us hope, it is proved that they are innocent and there is no evidence against them then I hope people remember that before booking holidays in Portugal in the future.

MB

I cant imagine that two doctors would be SO lax in allowing blood traces to be found in a hire car..IF they had something to hide, that is.........unless someone else is doing some framing......

Bob

Your post has beaten me to it, Martin.

I was about to say something similar, but maybe with less tolerance than yourself.

I agree with your every word, save for the last paragraph.

For I am sure that most tourists’ travel insurance could easily be extended to cover for the effects of the incompetence of the local police. We should therefore not cross Portugal off our list of holiday destinations too readily.

I have spent much of the day reading/hearing about this heart wrenching subject. Here, on the web, on the TV and amongst much of the UK press ………….. and it is quite obvious that the PJ are whistling in the dark.

Don’t get me wrong ………………… for I have no love for the McCanns.

Their selfish version of parenthood dismays me, their campaign to find Madeleine is a distasteful commercial enterprise rather than a desperate search for an abducted daughter, and their reluctance to appear human before the cameras is a PR disaster.

But it does Madeleine no justice whatsoever to shamelessly try to shortcut the investigation into her suffering.

It seems that much of the media is agreed on the general content of these 22 questions that the PJ are so desperate to have answered.

Yet I for one could offer a plausible answer to each of them !

And in return, I would have 101 questions for the Portuguese Police.

Why are you not looking for Madeleine’s body ? For if the McCanns disposed of it then it would surely not be far away. And once you find the body ………….. then you will surely extract from it all the evidence that you need.

How could the McCanns have possibly concealed a dead body for at least 25 days ?

How could the McCanns have retrieved and disposed of a dead body if their every move since the 4th of May was under surveillance by the PJ and a generous selection of the world’s media ?

Has their hire car been tested for soil and pollen samples to determine where it has been ? Has the car’s mileage been checked with fuel invoices and has a public appeal been launched for information on the vehicle’s whereabouts during the McCanns’ hire period ?


I could go on and on …………..but I am sure that it would make no difference to those of you who have allowed your dislike of the McCanns to influence you in your theories.

I hear that they intend to return to the UK forthwith …………………… and that the Portuguese Police have no objection …………………………….. that speaks a million words !!!

Portugese Law
• Formal suspect called "arguido," or "arguida" for a woman
• An "arguido" has more legal rights than a witness, including right to remain silent and have a lawyer
• Some people request to be declared "arguido" to get this protection
•Police must declare a witness an "arguido" before asking certain questions or making an arrest
• Courts may restrict movements of an "arguido"
• An arrest or charge does not always follow someone being named an "arguido"

All they have been proven guilty of is stupidity and negligence in leaving young children alone.

Had any of the party been involved in Maddy's disappearance they wouldn't have been so angry on the night itself about the lack of action by the police.

The McCanns do not come over as sympathetic people, perhaps their training in medicine has taught them to appear calm and controlled in stressful situations.

I find lurid speculation about their possible guilt distasteful, disrespectful and a distraction from the search for a lost child.

My personal belief is that the police messed up from the start and, with the eyes of the world on them, want the criticism transferred somewhere else.

Gwynne

Can I just add this : on the radio 4 news at 7am they said that the blood sample in the car was so minute the they could not tell if it was from a male or female.
P

well Kris I have seen how you were shot down before and I had been waiting for a thread from you titled
I told you so.

But it is strange how all along they would never leave until their daughter was found and now all of a sudden they are wanting to come home.

I wonder if social services are going to investigate them for child neglect as that petition keeps growing.

Looking back at most of the photos taken from the onset,,,,all I have been able to see in the face of Mrs McCann is---


Anger,Disgust,at times Fear, Strenght,Determination,and Challenging.

But this latest outcome I dont belive has been any great suprise to them,and perhaps welcomed it,??

I believe they had intended to leave by Monday before they had become suspects.

If the McCanns come home now, they wil be accused of 'running'.

I do believe that if they have nothing to run from, they should stay where they are. Portuguese police will have to PROVE them guilty before they can charge them - a case as big as this, speculation will not be good enought.

The McCanns are as big as suspect as anyone else - they should stay, face the music, and if the portuguese police are singing from the wrong songsheet, So be it.

The McCanns have been happy to stay in Portugal until the finger starts to point at them, then when it is, they want to turn and come home? Bad Move.

The police have said they can leave - and, as Kate said, they had already said they were going home for the sake of the twins and their work colleagues.

Gwynne

From what I have heard these flights today had been booked for a while and the lease on the villa runs out on Tuesday.

If the police had some strong evidence against them surely they would not have been allowed to leave.

Just hope it is all sorted out soon.

Christine

Hi Everyone!! don't post much at the moment, my friends husband is in hospital and we have been busy with them. I have been reading the post on this thread though, i feel i must just add that in a lot of cases family are usually the first suspects, because most abuse etc: is done by a family member!! or someone the child knows and from what i have read in the past they interview the parents to see thier reaction, qualified police know when the truth or not is being told by the parents reaction to certain questions. I have thought that Kate McCann has been looking gaunt and under pressure!! but her husband seems to have no emotion at all, surely no matter how proffessional you are it would begin to show after all this time!!
Thats my 2 penneth!! lol
Hope you all have a good day!!
Love Helen

Someone said this morning that the parents had decided at the start that would never break down in public, I am sure the press would love pictures of them in tears but not everyone is like that.

There was a comment that arguida/arguido limits what the person can say in public. I am surprised the Portuguese police have not done the same to the rest of their family and friends as a convenient way to gag them.

A dog "expert" claimed that they can find traces of a body years after its presence but I would presume that is when a body has been stored somewhere for a significant period. He also claimed that it could be used as evidence but I cannot seeing it standing up for long in a British court. One worrying thing is that forensic evidence that would be thrown out of a British court as too unreliable might be accepted by a foreign court.

I find the claims for the dogs that detect past presence of death particularly unreliable especially when forensic methods seem to have been so lax - many people at the scene could have been in the presence of a dead body especially the investigators and also of course two doctors.

Someone on the news said that the Portuguese do not want a murder of a foreign child so getting the parents to admit to an accidental death would be a very convenient solution for them. It does make you wonder if that is what is happening.

MB

There is a good piece in the Sunday Mail this morning with the comments of a former head of the Strathclyde Police Serious Crime Squad.

He also says that he thinks there is no evidence against the couple and the Portuguese authorities just want them to leave the country as they are more interested in the effect on the tourist industry.


"The fact that Madeleine's DNA has been found in the hired car 25 days after she went missing means nothing.

"The DNA could easily have been transferred to the car from items of clothing belonging to Madeleine that had been placed in the car by her parents.

"You have to ask the question: 'How could someone hide a body for 25 days?' It's just not possible with the eyes of the world upon you. Bodies are notoriously difficult to hide and nearly always turn up in one form or another."



MB

Martin, My son said the same about the DNA....but that leads to another question .......which has holes
Why did they give back the hire car?

I do realise that it could have been going out to another person ...but if that was my company I would prehaps have gone out my way to allow them to keep the car!!

Another thought.

They claim that the dogs can detect the presence of death or contact with death a long time later.

One piece of "evidence" is that the dog found the presence of contact with death on the mother's bible.

The mother is said to be a devout Catholic, as a doctor she must have had contact with death as part of her work. What is someone religious likely to do in such circumstances - perhaps turn to her bible on getting home?

They seem to clutching at straws with their "evidence".

MB

Martin, Kate McCann works one day per week as a GP. I can't really see her having that much contact with death.
Also. IVF goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church so I cannot see anyone that devout going against those teachings.