General Chat

Denise - my only reply to that is that 'He' has been there during my toughest times when I have really needed him. There was a time when I turned my back on religion and then God totally, but when life was at its lowest I found him again and I believe that my faith pulled me through it. Kaye x

Denise As a child being sent to Sunday school I suppose you believe as a child does and everything you are taught is right. I believe this was my case. You grow up enter into the world and all it has to offer and you begin to doubt and stray into the way of the world. Attending church only for weddings, christenings and funerals because its the done thing. Always believed in God but never practiced going to church after the age of 19 other from quoted above. When i was 34 I suppose I was something of a 'bingo queen' or maybe verging on be an out of control gambler. I began to wonder one Sunday night 'I wonder what hymns they are singing tonight' Aghast where on earth did that come from and blimey her who could mark 12 tickets all at the same time and still count the numbers as they were called began to miss them. This went on for a few months and I really wanted to go to church, can't say why, but didn't want to go on my own. My best friend said 'Elaine (her sister) and Ian are coming home soon, them being missionaries in Africe, I said oooo after watch the p's and q's. No said friend why should we after all its them that's changed not us. Any way sometime after they came home friend said we are going to church tonight fancy coming - fancy coming do I heck have wanted for some reason to go for ages but not on my own. We went and the preacher went on and on (a bit like me sorry) my reaction was ' If you think i'm going there again you can think on' and where was I the following week - yes same place but the minister of the church was in residence - a visiting preacher previously. Made no difference mind he went on a bit but lo and behold I just could not stay away and was asking 'well how do you know your christian' always assumed I was one cause i'd gone to church and believed in God - not so. The more I heard, the more i knew I needed a Saviour if I was going to find favour with God. Something happened one night after a week of very strange happenings, a bit too long to explain, but after that I knew Jesus had come into my life. I knew that when he died on that accursed tree it was for my sake, for the remission of my sins and because of that God had forgiven me and reconciled me to himself. I can only tell you that I knew peace within like nothing else I've ever experienced and my life changed drastically. That was 23 years ago and I don't regret a single day. Like Davo I can also quote Job ' I know that my redeemer liveth'. Love & God Bless Dorothy

Hadn't realised this thread was still going strong. As I said earlier on, I am a believer, but after catching up on this thread, it's made me start thinking about all sorts of things. Hope you don't mind if I share them with you here. I've often question the fact that the church won't allow women to become priests. I was told that if Jesus had intended women to become priests, he'd have chosen some female disciples. On the other hand the church teaches that people have 'a calling' to become a priest - it's a vocation. However, if women have 'a calling' they just remain nuns, unable to say Mass, yet they are 'good enough' to prepare celebrations? I'd rather see a female priest 'doing a good job' than see a mediocre male priest. Then I've often wondered why Popes cannonise saints. I don't remember Jesus ever doing that, or am I wrong? Why are reliable birth control methods still scorned? I agree that we should go forth and multiply, but nowadays not many couples would be able to house, feed or cloth a large family, let alone find time to educate them properly for life or in the Faith. What about those priests with certain 'problems' who just get shoved about from one parish to another? I often wonder why the church doesn't make sure they get proper care and attention. As many people have said, these downfalls are due to mankind's way of organising religion. I often wonder what Jesus thinks about the way mankind is now 'handling things'. Blimey, I'd better stop there although there are other things that bother me. Sorry for going on, but I'd be interested in hearing what other people think - if they've had time to read all this! Margaret

To be honest, subjects like history, theology and religious dogma leave me cold. What I have experienced, though, is the guiding hand of God throughout my life, wonderful answers to prayer and a peace and contentment that money can't buy. I am constantly reassured by the simplicity of the gospel message, summed up for me in St John 6:40 'And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.'

When my dad died in 1999 a glow came off his body but only a couple of us kids noticed it so it has made me think there is something else and when I am feeling down I get the feeling he is beside me so he is still around

Im now very much a believer in the Buddhist Faith, It makes sense to me. I have read 'the bible' and the 'Quran' and lots about various faiths. I was a raised a christian and my faith was very strong, until the priest told me that if I divorced I would not be allowed to take holy communion again, I was just disgusted at his attitude, I decided to leave the church, this in my opinion is just rubbish!! Who is he to decide I can or can not take communion, Im now happy with my spirituality,Ive found my path,so to speak, I know theres more to us than flesh and blood. I dont think it matters what you believe,its whats in your heart that counts, thats the important part.

Can I ask a question?? My Mam believes in God like she knows him personally. She speaks of a God that is good and kind and just with certain expectations from us and can give lots of lovely examples to back this up. My Son at the minute is doing some modular exams in R.E. and he speaks of a God that is vengefull and who will slay people who do not do as he says is the right way ie he tipped off Noah and his family but not the rest (he gives more examples but I've forgotten and I'm not sure of the bible) To be honest I should have waited until Son came home from school before I put this comment because I really dont know much about the bible :-) Anyway the question is: who is right - Mam or Son?? Sue xx

The thing is the Bible is so open to interpretation, that there are no wrong or right answers - one faith sees things one way, like the Catholics not approving Birth Control etc and another one will see it completely different - the Methodists accept Birth Control, Women Preachers and Divorce! It confused me no end when I was younger and turned me against God and Religion completely as it all seemed so hypocritical - but in the end you have to find your own interpretation and your own path and your own faith. Kaye x

I think Jesus would be absolutely disgusted with many forms of organised religion today. After all, he gave the organised religion of his day a pretty hefty serve - the terms hypocrites and white-washed sepulchres - spring to mind. However, I also think we have been given the freedom to honestly consider many different claims. I believe God expects us to bring our brains into our faith. Having said that, I also agree with the statement that at some point in time Faith is stepping out in trust. I have looked and considered, and stepped out and I have not been disappointed. Christ Jesus is my best friend, my Lord, Saviour and King. I have a personal and heart to heart relationship that is very precious and underpins my life. It is not a cop-out, it is not an easy road BUT the joy and hearts-peace in the midst of trouble cannot be bought :) (and of course, the pension plan is out of this world :) Vonny

Vonny & Kaye - I agree with a lot that both of you have said:)

I had an elderly maiden Aunt, who lived for me and my brother. She had a simple, deep faith and practised her Christianity every day. When I was about six, I forget how the subject came up, she told me I would go to Hell, because I had not been baptised. I of course burst into tears, Auntie was roundly told off - but she would not back down. She was in tears herself, aghast at upsetting me, but she knew what she KNEW, and wouldnt budge. She struggled with it and later on told me privately that I could be baptised as an adult. She hoped I would choose to do this, because she so much wanted to see me again, in Heaven. I never did get baptised, but I have often thought of this, and almost wished that I too could have such a deep and unquestioning faith. Faith is obviously something which transcends intellect. You either have it or you dont, I doubt if it is something you can ever 'learn'. OC

O.C,How Cruel to say that to a child, and what rubbish! I dont think God cares about if we have been submerged in water in his name,I dont think he cares if we go to church,which to me is only a building! But he does care about our actions and how we treat others.

Wow! had to go out today and missed all the chat on here! But have had a good read through & can't resist backtracking a bit to comment on a few things.. Firstly, Hi to Margaret (swiss maid)- great questions! Your observations of the church seem to be based on the Catholic church, is that your background? If so , I'm not surprised you have noticed things that Jesus never did or that aren't in the BIble! Keeping it friendly , as we have , and with no offence to our Catholic friends meant, there are a lot of traditions peculiar to Catholicism which have no biblical basis. EG, making & praying to saints, praying to Mary, praying for the souls of the dead, purgatory, etc, etc...Going strictly by a biblical definition of salvation by faith in Jesus, we have the promise of Heaven and there is therefore no need for a place, such as purgatory to 'wait' while it is decided whether we have been good enough. Jesus said He is our priest in Heaven, and the only way to God the Father is through Him- so he does not allow room for 'prayers' to dead people, even if they are labelled 'saints'! Although I am part of a Christian church, on this note I agree that much damage is done by some parts of the church, the main thing being that people are led away from the free gift of salvation by grace offered by Jesus, and led instead into a set of rituals & religious acts to be performed to try to be 'good enough' to please God! We could never be good enough to please God- he knew that & that's why Jesus took the punishment in our place! Denise

Hi Sue from Wakefield! What a good question- how can both these be talking about the same God? Well, I'm with your mum! I know God through my acceptance of what Jesus did for me, and through the personal relationship I have built since I was a teenager. And yes He is interested in every aspect of my life and loves me beyond all measure! But God's love is equally balanced by his justice, and in Old Testament days, before Jesus came, when Noah & co lived, God's justice was administered by his Law that he gave to Moses. But of course, people were unable to stick to the Law, so God was bound to punish them. But because of His great love for us, his creation, God sent his son, Jesus, to willingly take the punishment that should be ours for our sin, so that our relationship with God could be restored. That's when the new Testament (agreement/ covenant) between man & God started. We now each have the choice- accept God's offer of forgiveness by trusting his way is good for us, or decide we know better & accept the consequences of God's justice... Just in case you were wondering, I'm not just repeating learned phrases- I understand, believe & live by what I am saying to you. It's the most important thing anyone ever told me, so I'm glad to have a chance to share it with you! And Sue, you can be sure your mum would love to discuss it more, or you can pm me anytime!! Denise

Thanks to Denise & Yvonne for excellent comments. I too, love the Lord Jesus Christ. What is a 'Christian' unless it is someone who follows 'Christ'? Those who are disgusted by the hypocrisy of people who call themselves Christians and then lose all interest in Christianity because of them are focussing on the wrong person. Jesus Christ lived a perfect life and suffered Hell precisely because we are all sinners. God's justice demands punishment for sin. His grace and mercy provides a way for us to be pardoned - Christ takes the penalty. It's funny (funny strange - not funny haha) how people hear of murderers, rapists, child molestors, etc and automatically say, 'I hope they rot in Hell'. We want justice for other people but are not willing to accept justice for the things we have done wrong ourselves. I haven't yet heard any good explanation for the trouble there is in the world other than that which is in the Bible...sin. We see evil all around us - surely we should be used to it? But it upsets us because it's abnormal I haven't yet heard why it is that death upsets people even though it happens all the time and we should be used to it by now. But the Bible makes clear that death only entered the world through sin - and that's why we'll never get used to it - we weren't created to die. Death is abnormal. The Bible offers the only decent explanation for the way things are. We don't like it because we don't like being called sinners - and so we ignore it and find any possible excuse for continuing to ignore it. I have accepted Christ's offer of full and free salvation. I don't have to do anything to get it - I can't because of my sin. It would be like trying to clean oily hands with an oily rag. Please put other people's poor witness to one side and look at Christ. Read about Him and ask Him to help you understand His Word, the Bible. Ask Him to help you understand the depths of your own sin rather than that of people around you. Kind regards, William

William, I do not like to be preached to! ive had that from the so called 'Church' I have my beliefs as you do I think you should respect that as I do you!

From Carol also oop north in the lakes. I have just read some extracts from this amazing discussion and hope to read all soon. I believe there must be an after life, I have faith but it is so difficult to seperate that fro m mans and the churches predjudices. I recently returned to church after several years away to a sermon about the damage of divorce,as a mum of 5 kids from 2 marriages and a husband in the hell hole of Iraq I was put off again but I still love GOD!!!!

Hi Roxanne, I have stated my beliefs. You have stated yours. Why do you consider me to be 'preaching' whereas you are 'showing respect'? And why is 'preaching' used in such a pejorative sense? Where did I do or say anything that showed a lack of respect? Is it that I described you - along with all of the human race - as a sinner needing salvation? Jesus - so often called a great teacher by those who don't follow his teachings - said exactly this. Don't imagine that *I* am condemning you and everyone else. Christ himself said this in John ch.3 verses 16-20 'For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.' Kind regards, William

Hi william, I apologise! I have just had very bad experiences with Christianity, i am sure that you are a good person as so many others who have voiced their beliefs. regards Roxanne

Hi Roxanne - no need to apologise! But you miss my point - I am not a 'good' person. Again, as Jesus said 'No one is good but God alone'. Kind regards, William