General Chat

I just find it funny how they can make the Bible fit to their beliefs. We read it one way, and they read it another. Oh well each to their own.

I dont know anything about the SILENT LAMBS website - I would think there are many out there who would want to cause probs for the Witnesses and whether these letters are true or not is open to question. If you actually read the directives I would say that the Witnesses arent hushing up any real abuse but saying that you cant just take the word of someone without evidence - much the same as the judicial law. Further they say that if someone were guilty before they were a witness but have changed then they should not be looked upon any differently. This I am sure is taken from I believe Matthew were he states something like, in lay language (I am not a bible scholar) that 'there are those among you who laid with men, those who stole and lied and were drunks' and then goes on to say that once they were baptised they were renewed. The Catholics WERE aware of real abuse over decades not just in their congregations but by their own priests but did hush it up, even paying off victims.

Where I live there are a lot of Plymouth Brethren.......I have spoken to several and have never had any mention religion in any way. When I have asked a Q about it, they have tended to not want to get into a discussion! Maybe the one you met was an over zealous recent convert?? (I have no idea what their beliefs are). My aunt (an athiest) was best friends with a Plymouth B lady for about 50/60 years! Merry

In my first job the lady who was teaching us to audio type (we had day release and college) was a member of the Plymouth Bretheren. She never mentioned it nor religion. I know that she never wore any make up and her skirts were nearly down to her ankles - well actually she looked a bit like Olive Oyl but a very pleasant woman. When we all used to go to the restaurant at lunch time she would sit in the training room on her own eating sandwiches - I was told, I dont know if it were true, that they tend not to mix socially with other than the Bretheren.

My late F in L had plymouth Brethren for next door neighbours. i remeber the childrn had to come home fom school or lunch , and that they had no TV (that may just have been them though) They all wore the littlew head scarf thinggy , with long long hair. I know They pool resources and buy houses that then belong to the brethren

Yes, funny how we all went off discussing the whys & wherefores of JW's, assuming that such an in-your-face approach must be from them! And it turns out that your bothersome passerby was in fact one of the Brethren! They are normally the most mild mannered, unassuming people, maybe as someone said she was simply new & a bit over- enthusiastic? Brethren bear no relation to JW's- the Brethren is simply a fundamental, evangelical branch of Christianity, adhering to strict Biblical principles, which are sometimes considered a bit old fashioned nowadays, by observers. D

What an interesting discussion! Years ago I was teaching in a primary school that had a number of Plymouth Brethern children. I have to say that they were the most happy and delightful group. True, there were things that they could/did not do. At assembly, for instance, when singing started, they all just got up quietly and left the hall and waited in the corridor until the singing stopped. At lunchtime, they brought their own and never ate school dinners. They tended to play together at break times and only joined in with other children if they were playing quiet 'sit down' games. This is the part that amazed me, as they never had to be told to do it, and when I asked one of them about it - a 6-year-old - she just said 'it's not what we do.' I'm sorry to hear, Christine, about the light going out of a youngster's eyes when she saw her family, but that happens in many families and suggests that there was something else going on besides religion. All the Plymouth Bretheren people I have known (and Quakers too come to that, and that group has a similar reputation), have been delightful people, whose ways may be different but as someone else said, most folk are good, kind and genuine and every group has its misfits and zealots. I have to agree though, that even having been brought up a Catholic, or maybe because of, I have little time for organised religion and believe that everyone has the ability and responsibility to find their own way to God, whatever that means for them.

'It does give an answer which is indeed backed up by the bible.' Sorry Heather - it might give you an answer but it doesn't give me one. If I give my child the freedom to make choices which may affect his life I make certain sure that if he/she makes bad ones they don't affect someone else's life if I can help it. If as an example I allow my son or daughter to decide whether or not to sleep around and therefore produce offspring or suffer from a sexual disease I would do my utmost to reduce the suffering caused as a result - I wouldn't stand back and let the offspring suffer or my son or daughter just get on with it - because 'they made their bed and they can lie in it and it just shows how you can't get on with out me.' I cannot accept that an 'all loving god' would allow suffering of innocent children just to see if we could cope without him - that would be crash arrogance which is a trait I that I would assume is not considered appropriate for whichever deity any one of us might believe in. How many children have to suffer and die before the revelation? I don't usually see the Bible as a point of reference because it tells me that Jonah was swallowed by a whale and survived ..and other such fables. I accept and respect unconditonally that others feel differently than I do - I just don't want them preaching to me. Helen :)

From canting Christians and sour-faced Saints, good Lord protect us.

That,s a bit harsh Jim. Think, behind it all, this thread is mainly made up of 'genuine seekers '. Happy days

Harry, I am saying nothing against religion. My comment is aimed at the prissy-faced Church attenders who think that everyone should follow their strict code of conduct and condemn anyone whose moral standard is, in their opinion, less severe. Also the fanatics who put themselves in your face and spout Scriptures at you. My personal attitude towards religion is this. I have studied at the Sunday Schools of Baptists, C of E and LDS. I have a Bible and can read. I have learned the Gospel of Christ and have my own understanding of it which is summarised as Love thy Neighbour. If there is a Judgement Day I will ask that those who I have helped should stand against those I have harmed, and they can argue it out. I'll be in the corner covered in fag ash.

Good argument Jim, but conversely aren.t good christians supposed to go out and tell others about the 'good news'. There are zealots about in all callings - even down to fag ash. Hope for your sake it is fag ash and not ash from helzapoppin. XXXHetty re below. what a lovely reply, happy daysXXX Best wishes Happy days

I have been following this thread with interest and my opinion is that whatever the religion they all think that they are right and are sincerely only trying to help, I too admire their dedication. I have two lovely cousins who are JWs, they are very loving kind people.I do not share their beliefs their rules and regulations,but love them anyway. I believe that Jesus is the way the truth and the life. Hetty

Grampa Jim - my Mother is one of those 'prissy-faced Church attenders' and I can assure you that she does not stand in judgement over anyone. Her Husband - my Step Father - is a retired Methodist Minister who is as honest and caring for everybody as the day is long. They have their views on Christianity but still accept that other people have differing ones - myself included. Please be careful what you say and don't tar everbody with the same brush. Kaye x

Plymouth Brethren believe that this world is the Devil's domain and that he is the supreme ruler of it. They try to live their lives by avoiding contact with the devil (i.e. you and me) wherever possible. They do not seek converts because they believe that they are God's Chosen Ones, and that if you too are a chosen one, you will find your way to them. However, those who seek them out could have been sent by the Devil, so they are wary of newcomers. I dont think Jim was saying that all Church-goers are prissy self satisfied people. There are many people who sincerely believe in their religion and lead good and decent lives, not seeking to push their views down anyone else's throat. Sadly, it seems to be my personal experience only to have met the other sort, those who feel that they have the moral edge over me, and if its anything at all to do with them, I won't be going to heaven. And the further up the ladder you get in any organised religion, the more corruption there seems to be and the more power-seeking. The most Christian person I know is in fact a raging Atheist! She does good by stealth, seeking no praise or thanks. I know this because she helped me in a practical financial way - she hardly knew me at the time. I was absolutely overwhelmed at her kindness but she just shrugged and said 'I've got it, you need it - no problem'. I know I am not the only one she has helped, not just financially, but in such things as cooking a delicious meal and leaving it on someone's doorstep, giving a neighbour a break in caring for a relative with Alzheimers. Contrast that with a 'Born Again Christian' whom we both worked with, who told a vulnerable young woman that she would be going to Hell, because she had allowed her son to go to a Halloween Party. She was very distressed and I wanted to punch him on the nose. OC

Please Kaye, Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that everyone who attends Church is like that. Far from it. I was a lay Minister for 5 years. However, surely everybody knows the 'Christian' who sits in her pew and, while maintaining the pose of a statue, thinking that she is being reverent, is heard to be tutting if a baby murmurs, or a child fidgets. The same woman who has been running a vendetta against her neighbours for years, is mean and stingy when paying to have any services done. Yet next Sunday, dressed in sober, modest clothing she will be there singing her Hymns and 'Being A Christian' I apologise for using the female example, but, in my experience they are usually the ones which would qualify as sour faced Saints.

For is it not written 'By their fruits ye shall know them'?

I find it so sad that so many of you have met so many difficult (for want of a better word) Christians. I was raised as a Methodist, although I do not follow any particular religion now, and have met so many lovely people. All my Family are good, caring and honest people and I do believe, in some part, that it is due to us all being raised in a Christian environment. I admit I have met some not so nice people who are connected with the Church and some very weird ones too, but the vast majority have been the complete opposite. As I said my Step Father is now retired, but still he goes off visiting people who need company or comfort - particulary elderly people who are often on their own. My Mother has the patience of a Saint with a sickly but difficult neighbour and does what she can to help her. I don't know about C of E or Catholic Churches but I have never come across the straight laced old Lady tutting in her pew as the children will not be quiet etc. I used to go to Chapel with my Grandmother sometimes when I was quite young and often got to sing in the choir with her - my early experiences of Church/Chapel were very peasant ones. I think the thing to remember is that no matter where you go there are good people and bad people - there will always be some that hide behind religion and are complete hypocrites, just as there will always be those that take it to the extreme, but there are always many more who are just honest, caring people. Kaye x

It is the small but very annoying minority who, no doubt sincerely, cause their churches to fall into disrepute by their constant preaching, not to, but at people. Regrettably the various religious factions are brought to our attention by the oddballs and zealots. I think that this is what makes so many people anti. The Word of God doesn't so much need speaking as obeying. The vast majority of people, including Religious congregations, go about their business quietly, without fanfare, and, by their example, hopefully encourage others to live likewise. And, after all, each of these people has chosen which sect, cult or religious belief that they wish to follow, so why don't they have the courtesy to allow the rest of the world to find out for itself? Place food in front of me and I will eat. Push food in my face and I will probably want to hit you.