General Chat

I am not trying to silence remainers...just those who think it ok to more or less call the leavers idiots and worse. I don't think anyone is an idiot for voting the way they did......but what hurts me is some 'friends' are forgetting we can read their posts and calling leavers worse names than they have called murderers. (( sorry keyboard playing up) It also hurts me to see the negativity about our Country.....what must the others think of us....Are you now trying to shut 'me' up. .....My points are as valid as the next and I have read enough writings of the remains to have made me want to say my piece too.......I don't normally vote as they are, in my opinion, as bad as each other, which they are now proving ...But!.....this time I felt strongly enough to......only to be called names and the leave vote not taken for what it means......Now tell me why I bothered..........We the leavers have feelings and good reason too...please don't belittle us for our genuine vote and make that vote to be of no consequence just because it is not agreed with.

PS. Rose <3

I am avoiding FB...........way too nasty on there at the moment :-(

I am dodging all the toys being thrown out of the prams Susan .......I came here for a rest :-D :-D

Rose
I so agree with you.

I am tired of the recriminations.

I voted remain because I wanted the young people to have the opportunities that I had as a member of the EU. Both working and studying in Europe.

My worry now is the effect on my standard of living.I have suffered from a recession caused by the banking crisis and when we are just beginning to have some sign of recovery - or so I am told- I have at least another 27 months of uncertainty.

To those who say " get over it " I will when I see a comprehensive plan for our exit .

I am not belittling anyone, there were many who voted leave that I know did so for what they believe are 'good reasons' or because they were unsure they thought leave might well be better than the status quo and deliberated long and hard, arguing one way and then the other to themselves before voting.

I still think that overall those reasons were not 'good enough' from a financial and social point of view, that the benefits of being IN outweighed the potential ( who knows) benefits of being OUT.

That said, I AM and WILL be belittling the people who voted out for reasons of prejudice, those who, already, have taken the vote as an endorsment that they are right to blame all the country's woes on "immigrants and the EU" ( mainly the former) rather than successive governments.

People of that ilk I have no time for, and yes some have already appeared on my FB, sharing posts from those organisations like Britain First etc.

I have no time for them, but I fear as said that they will now be even more vociferous in their hatred given that they have, at least in their own minds, had their way on this. I truly fear that this country will become, whether by choice or otherwise, isolationist, xenophobic and with a mindset that I cannot feel is 'my country'.

That fear doubles at the thought that along with this referendum there is also the real possibility of Trump being elected.

Not everyone is like that Rose, no more than all the remains have The UK s best interests at heart. I do feel for those who wanted the remains to win, but somebody had to lose. I don't think it helps to think that. 'all' leavers are of bad character.....may be some....just as all remainers are not angels with their motives for their choice....We must all stand together to make sure that the unscrupulous have less of a chance to spout their hatred in our beloved country. ( sorry keyboard fault)

Don't forget a lot of the banks made a lot of money off that result trading all night...so they were going to win short term no matter what the result.

No Susan not everyone is, I would never say so... but some are, and you know as well as I do that there are even some on this board whose ignorance and prejudices go hand in hand and they are celebrating today.

I don't want anyone to sympathise with the remainers per se, just have some compassion for the people who cannot afford to ride out the uncertainty, who 'may' lose their jobs or their homes in the coming years until/if stability is established.

Long term results may not come quick enough for those who suffer in the meantime...and that is likely imo to apply equally to remainers and leavers alike.

If it all works out for the good of the majority, I shall come on here 5/10 years down the line and say " I was wrong" ;-)

Could you do me a favour Rose.....I know you like reading :-)

Could you download the following from Amazzon £1-99. And tell me what you think....what. I have read so far is an eye opener ...... It may also explain why there Was more than the immigration card that swayed many.....


The Great Deception: The Secret History of the European Union Kindle Edition


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Deception-Secret-History-European-ebook/dp/B01DLVZA2W/ref=sr_1_11?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1466959325&sr=1-11&keywords=History

I find reading large blocks of text online difficult Susan, because of floaters but I will look out for it in print, if I get to the library. :-)

edit, one of the authors doesn't exactly have an unblemished record for accuracy though?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Booker

That's not to say he may not be right in this instance...I just like to know background, writers are not without their own bias lolol.

All I heard from the politicians on both sides was vote for us for blah, blah, blah.

I am old enough and educated enough to know that politics is all about lying just enough to get the result you want.

I ignored what was being said by the politicians, the media which follow which ever party the Owner/editor follows.

I did my own research into the future of the EU, the trade we do with them vs the world before making my decision, and voted accordingly

What really is getting to me more than anything is all of the vitriol being spouted on social media, from both sides.

The more I read since the referendum the more I'm inclined to petition government to give absolute power back to the Monarchy because the country as a whole has deteriorated to a state where it can't be trusted to respect one another's right to hold a different view.

What I find annoying is how party poitics got in the way of rational discussion.
We had "the Government view" supporting Remain - even though the Cabinet i.e. the ruling Executive, was divided on the issue.
The Labour party came out, albeit rather late and half heartedly in favour of Remain, even though some shadow ministers took the opposite view and the result showed that grass roots members in what should have been Labour strongholds also took the oposite view.
We need more cross-benchers in the Commons to give a balanced view and a smaller House of Lords appointed on merit and expertise to fulfil its function of a revising chamber to curb the excesses of the Commons, not to politically mirror the Commons by each administration appointing new Peers to try to mirror the Commons party ratio.

:-D :-D :-D :-D

struck again!

someone must not have liked my comment re the petition to have another referendum :-D

Hello To All!!

I am sitting on the fence so to speak, from the other side of the world 'Down Unde'r!
i'm interested in all this, as my parents are English born, i'm 1st Gen.Aussie.
My Father was in the British Army almost 10yrs fought to give all, their Freedom as did his Uncles in ww1, 2 lost their lives at the Somme.....

I was ecstatic when UK had the votes to 'LEAVE'! I see the EU as a' Dictatorship' !
I would not like Aust.....to be under CHINA would be communist they own a lot of our land and mining, Dairy Farms etc.. as it is, our Govt too friendly.

I have read a lot about the EU & where it wants to lead, its scary really 'A One World Order' No Way!! No one knows who's actually running the Show in 'Brussels' Faceless Men of the Billionaire types! getting richer day by day....
It seems mostly the younger set are for it.......who cannot see further that the Freedom to work & Travel..........I wish they could wake up & see the reality of where its actually leading...........and Yes! it is about Migration of displaced peoples, but Europe cannot House, Feed, Provide for the 'Millions' it has already caused chaos with good law abiding peoples who just want their Country, Culture to remain without being accosted, .....its so unfair on them!

I cannot see the EU bending Rules to suit 'Scotland' they had their chance almost 2yrs back, wanting to break away from UK but the Vote seemed to fly back in their face ....they voted to stay !
They cannot have it all!! They lost their chance, now they want another,Tough Luck!....i have Scottish rellies do not know how they voted......the Minister, is very young has a lot to learn!

All you young people out there! Wake Up! 'Freedom' your Country has got out when the going is good, it will be tough for some time.....someday you will look back and be very Thankful when you see what is happening in Europe!

Don't forget all WW1 WW2 men & women who lost their lives, was to make sure their Country & peoples would have the 'Freedom' that other Countries do not have, you may not get it now, but someday you will!

I must state the UK had turned their back on us Aussies, New Zealanders Canadians and all others of the British Commonwealth., any one wanting to work & live in the UK, were told they could not unless earning 75,000 GBP or in Aust $152.000 a few mths back when i checked...which is impossible! even for a Teacher or working for an Insurance Co. or Bank.
The UK under the EU preferred bring in Migrants to work cheaply...or the undereducated.......So! So! Wrong! We felt as though we were kicked in the back!

I wish everyone..... 'All The Best Of British Luck'!
:-) :-D :-)

Welcome Poppycat

Oh dear Sylvia......I read your post.....nothing much I could see that needed RRing.....not to worry :-(

Susan wiv .............

I'm beginning to get a feeling of being persecuted ..... that's the 3rd RR in a week :-D :-D

It all boils down to the fact that the "remainers" had a pretty good idea what they were voting for after so many years as EU members whereas the "leavers" have no idea what the future will hold.

Sometimes democratic elections & referendums produce unexpected results.

Waiting for political messiahs to save us is futile. Give the long-suffering UK citizens a break.

I voted to remain - not for any great political reason, it simply felt right for me. I am not 'sulking' but, like many others, I am genuinely concerned as to where the final result will now take us.


I looked at both campaigning sides and, what I saw from Brexit, made me realise that there was not a single person on that team that gave me confidence for the future, in fact, I found the whole set up rather unnerving.


Now that the choice to leave has been made, I know I made the right decision for myself. I am getting the depressing impression that the Leave team, after all their rhetoric, are now panicking because they do not know what to do next.


It's all very well saying that 'we must pull together' as a country, but they are empty words - the majority of us have will have very little input into what will actually go on and what decisions are made.

The bed has been made......now it must be lain on.

And the leave voters wont be making any future decisions on how the country is run,those will still be made by those with bums on seats. ;-) :-D :-D.

" I must state the UK had turned their back on us Aussies, New Zealanders Canadians and all others of the British Commonwealth., any one wanting to work & live in the UK, were told they could not unless earning 75,000 GBP or in Aust $152.000 a few mths back when i checked...which is impossible! even for a Teacher or working for an Insurance Co. or Bank. "

The salary requirement is £ 35 000 which is set so as to allow junior professionals but is a big obstacle for those not in one of the special occupations such as nursing. The salary bar is far too high and apart from the sheer injustice of it the bar is denying the UK some great people.

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2015-07-07/uk-tier-2-visa-immigrants-must-earn-35000-to-settle-from-april-2016

Nevertheless although I continue to be a strong supporter of remain I have always thought the restrictions on people coming from Canada, Australia, New Zealand, southern Africa unfair and unjust.

When the UK joined I thought and still think that Canada, OZ and NZ could have been added to the Common Travel Zone ( inc right to reside ) along with Eire. Quite why that has never happened I know not. Instead restrictions have been tightened which is why "more and more of us" is actually "less and less of use" around Barons Court Nevern Square and so on.

If "Leave" sorts out some sort of deal with the EU and then adds these three countries to for free movement then all the downside will not have been for nothing. As it is I have not set my hopes very high as the person who set the current bar is Teresa May.

If I said everything I think about this matter I'd probably be arrested so I won't. Suffice to say I can see no logic in denying families the right to be together and do business across what in many ways are artificial frontiers. All of the other founding EU states were canny enough to look after their own people, not us.Just look at today. Romania issues passports a la carte to anybody from Moldavia who wants one, Poland does the same for the Ukraine.

Let's see:

promise: immigration free movement to be controlled ; by inference UK allowed to open the gates where it wishes to
actuality: no change ( price of admission to the single market )
promise: huge amounts of money for the NHS,, farmers, fishermen
actuality: misunderstanding, nos such undertaking
promise: the UK will make its own trade agreements around the worled free of the EU bureaucracy
actuality: China says rhubarb, rhubarb flat panic in both the Tory and Labour parties as the £ crashes

Boris makes a speech today that "the UK will continue to be within the single market, free movement will continue, closer and closer cooperation with the EU including Erasmus etc etc BUT the UK would not be subject to European Court etc" ... well if he succeeds in that bldy good show but I fear he is in the land of the very large cuckoo.

ho hum