General Chat

Island. I truly think we would both have enjoyed praying together that morning.

It is not easy to pray with someone from a different denomination, but it can be immensely rewarding. And I did want to learn about quite a close relative, particularly how she communicated with God.

I remember we had a monthly ecumenical service when we lived in Whitchurch, Salop in late 80's. We would meet in Anglican Church, RC chapel, Methodist church, Baptist, Pentecostal and URC in turn. And the minister of each church would lead and not in their own church. And we would all pray as we felt able.

It was noticeable that the only Catholic who ever prayed was the priest. All the lay people in other denominations had a go, even if they read their prayer from a book.

try again,

isn't wanting to pray with your aunt, or anyone who has there own preferred choice of prayer method ( a bit of an awkward phrase but it will do) putting a barrier UP rathen than taking one down? when if one just accepted that people choose to pray differently leaves no barrier at all, all prayers go to the same place, and theoretically you should be able to 'share' the prayers because you both know their destination, even if the source is in different rooms, different churches, or even the pub.

We have so many opportunities to pray quietly on our own. And most churches have midweek prayer meetings to join with others in your own church who pray similarly.

But opportunities to pray together like we had that morning are few and far between in this life. And I think we would both have remembered it. And I am sure God would have blessed it, even if it might have made the local Catholic priest see red if he ever found out.

I think for some their prayers are personal to them and would not want to be overheard by others, it would be a prayer between a person and their God.
Prayers in church or at prayer meetings are different .


Hayley, at the CofE church I attended some years ago we would sign the cross and kneel as in the RC church.

As a child I attended an Evangelical church and the congregation would pray as a whole with people speaking in tongues during the prayers.

I am the phone with Susan, no doubt she'll be back when we havE finished chatting.

To be honest John I don't wish to seem ungrateful but no thank you!


EDIT.....I am afraid I find your opinions slightly over the top for my liking .....no offence.

Lolol my answer would have been, can I bring earplugs ;-) ;-) ;-)

Susan is nicer than me :-D :-D

John Said

Oh yes, SueM. She would be very welcome. Talking, discussing and meeting together begins to break down barriers formed by a thousand years of suspicion and plenty of violence.

Edit again

*who would have been very welcome at any church I have belonged to. And I am sure same would apply to Susan or any Catholic friend.*

is there a reason for this inclusion of my name in your Paragraph. I must say John....I am very disappointed with you....such surreptitious behaviour tsk Tsk!

he deleted the other insult it seems

Please keep me out of your wind ups John and out of talking about me as if I wasn't here.....I had an opinion and because you didn't like it, it seems you wish to make fun of me..... Not very Christian is it? Please debate a subject and not the person. .....And please do not preach to me. I know where to go if I need religious instruction and it wouldn't be on a website or from yourself or anyone else on GR.


edit again....Yes I read it properly John.....I do so wish I hadn't bothered coming onto this thread. My instincts were correct.....never get into a debate ( I use the term loosely ) about religion. I thought my answer would stand on its own...but no it was not to be.....please don't insult me again John. I gave an opinion.....end of....there is no need for the insults.

of course...all the deletions and manipulating of posts make it seem as if there is such innocence in some remarks. More insults.

Susan, As you can see from your recent copied post, the reason I spoke about you in third person was:
1. I was replying to SueMaid's note to me.
2. You did not want to contribute after your had posted.

And I did not edit anything at all I put on this thread - only to clarify that I was not criticising you personally. I have met too many Protestants who stick to their own denomination and will hardly have any contact with any Roman Catholics to make any personal criticism of any fellow Christian.

As I have got stronger in the faith, I try more and more to understand how people of other denominations and other faiths worship, and why.

And certain fairly recent "man-made" additions to all these Christian denominations can sometimes form barriers and hold worship and ecumenism back. Jesus gave fish and bread to all, not just to those who genuflexed (sp??). Not just to those who sang Wesley hymns with gusto :-)

John

My post had nothing whatsoever to do with being a Catholic! I answered what I thought as a person. I found your posts insulting and personal and do not wish to converse with you any more on the subject.

One of the deletions was the post Suemaid reposted with the ???

Sue with numbers - I think you have raised a valid point. It is, indeed, up to the RC church to make it's own decisions and it will be interesting to see how they handle their present crisis - make that crisis plural! Please stay with the thread as I do enjoy discussing things in a civilised manner. Rose? Just get down out of that tree and come on here!


John - I fear you have gone off at a tangent again. Just a little thought about others' views before you type would be helpful.


Actually, I don't think your aunt WOULD have been pleased to pray together with you. It sounds very much as though she was quite high church and of the 'old school', who preferred to keep their prayers private and from the prayer book with the set prayers for the day. Not everyone wants to drop to their knees at a moment's notice you know.


A set of rosary beads can be a great aid to prayer and prayers are prayed in a steady sequence, so I guess your aunt didn't want you interrupting her personal devotions.


Whilst I am fully aware that those of the more Pentecostal persuasion are willing to pray publicly anytime, any place, anywhere, experience has shown me that the majority of Anglicans and some other denominations are more reserved in their prayer lives.


Personally, I am not too keen on extemporary prayer where people just speak without preparation. I know it is supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit, but I have heard an awful lot of 'gumph' spouted over the years. I much prefer prayers which are thoughtfully and prayerfully put together.


Hayley, many Anglicans sign the sign of the cross especially if they belong to the 'High Anglican' persuasion. We're Anglicans but my OH signs himself AND genuflects to the altar. We also have a set of rosary beads.


The interesting thing about the Anglican church is that it is very broad - there are some churches which are almost pentecostal in nature and others where there is a very fine line between them and Roman Catholic worship - but they all come under the Church of England and the Anglican priests are all ordained in the same way whether they are 'high' or 'low' church.


George? I'm sorry you are fed up with religious threads but you really don't have to read them if you don't want to you know. We're really in the minority and there are far more non-religious threads which you can join in.


It's good to talk. :-D

John
Susan made a posting in her own view, something we have all done including you, Just because you're veiw may not be the same dose not mean you have to stamp you're feet. Be nice just for a change this thread is not about you. This is a nice thread with many differing views that I & others find intersting.

John, it seems clear to me that your aunt wished for quiet prayer time on her own terms. Maybe you should learn to stand back and be mindful of others wishes.

Cynthia. I only said I was disappointed. I was not trying to be critical.

I am well aware of this huge range of worship in Anglicanism. I once went into the ONLY place of worship in a largish (8,000 pop) village in South Yorkshire. It was really indistinguishable from the average RC church, and the "Father" was of the persuasion who call themselves Anglo-Catholics. He was a family man though - exactly the same as the old Catholic tradition before celibacy was brought in via Council of Trent (learned that on this thread :-))

I would also add that, from my very limited knowledge of Roman Catholic worship, there is a a huge range of types of worship there depending on local priest and congregation. Whitchurch in Shropshire was a very very simple chapel with hardly any statues and trappings. Less grand than our rather splendid Methodist Church. And the priest was a lovely young man (a Jesuit he told us) who just loved to come along to our midweek prayers occasionally and say a short prayer and discuss Jesus. And, my goodness, they are well trained and know an awful lot. I think we all understood each other better and grew in Grace :-) :-)

John,

I disagree with your comment about to many Protestants who stick to their own denomination and will hardly have any contact with any Roman Catholics.

I am a member of the Church of Scotland and over my life, I will be 70 this year, I have attended many ecumenical services and events related to the ecumenical movement.

I was very fortunate to have the Reverend Doctor Ian Fraser as my parish minister, and he was a very respected senior figure within the Church of Scotland and also in the ecumenical movement throughout the world. He worked tirelessly to spread the philosophy of the ecumenical movement and was dedicated to the ministry of all people who believed in God, he has written many books on the subject.

I was also fortunate to work for the Iona Community on the Island of Iona, and in the Abbey of Iona there are two services held every day with Holy Communion being cerebrated on Sundays, and everyone, no matter what faith they belong to is openly invited to take "full" part in all of these services.

I think you will find that people of all faiths have contact on a regular basis and that they share their christian beliefs and experiences far more than your comment seems to suggest.

OFG

I know very little about the Ionian community, though friends of mine tell me what a wonderful movement it is.

In one of the valley communities here (with a lot of immigrants), they have a very international and ecumenical service mid week which I have attended when I have been on holiday from work. They say the Lord's Prayer in about 8 languages (including Welsh) and it sounds very harmonious.

And they pass round a silver chalice and we all sip real wine together. Very unhygienic and very non Methodist. It is a lovely service and warms my heart tremendously to witness with people of a Baptist and Catholic persuasion. And everything between :-)

Edit. I was a member of a Protestant Church for 8 years in 1990's (not Methodist, but Indpendent). They were affiliated to Protestant Alliance and invited preachers like George Ashdown and Ian Paisley on occasions. And some members had rather strong opinions :-0 :-0

Please note her name is SUSAN she never shortens it.

Edit: I have never seen a grand Methodist church. Those that have seen daughter's wedding photographs will attest to the simplicity of the interior.

Sue :-D :-D I prefer the simplicity of a traditional Meth chapel myself. Absence of plaques, statues, silverware. I like teh comment I heard form an old preacher "the more candles, the less light"

But some are magnificent. Built at a time when benefactors were very wealthy and wanted to prove they could build a building as good as the parish church. Wolverhampton (Darlington St) cost £25,000 to build in 1901 (a huge sum) and Whitchurch Sal was built about 1880 and had the best of everything put in by a wealthy benefactor. We used to have a healthy marriage diary when I was a steward at Whitchurch and a very good choir. A lot preferred our church to nearby parish church (the White Church that gave Whitchurch its name) as it looked better on photos and was nearer the Golf & Country club that most parties continued to. :-)

Wow! How you all do 'go on' For me I adhere to the following:-

There is only one Christ Jesus,
One faith,
All else is disputes over trifles.


(Elizabeth 1st's response to the Catholic/Protestant divide)

LilyL And the reason why Paul felt he had to write his letters to the infant churches in Thessalonica, Corinth, Philippi, Ephesus, Galacia and Rome.

All his letters begin with the same cry from the heart. To accept we are different people with different traditions (Jews and Greeks then), but we must learn to understand other traditions and love and support each other :-)

Edit. Good old Queen Bess. I feel our present Queen would have a similar opinion :-)