General Chat

jOHN
what i praised Ron for was the fact
we had never ever agreed on anything in all the years we have been on here :-D

I have to say 5exy that as much as I have agreed with what you have had to say I don't really think that John has to answer your question. I wouldn't have a clue what it is like to be disabled in any way so it would be difficult for me to imagine not being able to do the things I usually do.

He doesnt have to answer anything but I don't think asking him to imagine what it would be like is "hateful & disgusting" either.

I have written to the Prime Minister who passed my complaints and comments on the the Minister at the DWP.

I received 2 x A4 sheets of total waffle which didn't address my points at all. I had exactly the same when I complained that able bodied pee for free and disabled have to pay for a RADAR key.

We are not all 'armchair critics' so please don't assume we are.

Plus if you know a lot more about the salient points in this discussion than we think you do don't be surprised that we are astonished! You don't know the difference between DLA and ESA, you don't know how the assessments are carried out - WE DO!

I am all for a lively discussion but snatching averages out of thin air as in the your post re the can't work for the foreseeable future etc., you have to use facts not guestimates and also use the references used by the DWP and ATOS because they are the ones in operation.

Your suggestion about ATOS helping with training etc., I have a disability advisor at the DWP. When I was assigned to her we had one meeting (I knew her anyway) and she told me outright that there would not be any employers that would suffer my loss of hours (therefore productivity) and finding someone to accompany me to the loo would be like finding a volunteer for anthrax testing!

i myself wrote to DWP 15 A4 pages
and got an apology of page back :-D

Rose I do live with it. And have lived with it. But I have only once myself been very ill and 18 months later I had recovered. And have been quite well since. And still have most of my faculties, though they don't work all that well.

So I would never claim that my experiences make me any sort of expert - but it certainly equips me to have a valid opinion.

sorry to laugh Sue, but the anthrax comment tickled me, and so at least I will go to bed with a smile :-D


SueMaid, I'm sorry that someone saw fit to suggest you shouldn't comment :-(

nighty night everybody and thank you
just a reminder everybody is more than welcome to comment on my thread
especially the lovely Sue xx

again

"Quote John "And I would never claim to understand much about the needs of chronically ill people - I admit I am an ignoramus in that area"

or "I do live with it"

which?

Night all.

I really don't want to talk about my experiences in this area. It was quite a few years ago and did involve carers allowance for about 2 years. And it is ongoing and I live with it.

But am not sure that you have to come on this thread only if you can prove you are living the dream (or nightmare). Not sure you cannot feel for a person with a serious illness or a disability unless you suffer from same thing.

I am not too bothered if you think your experiences in life are more valid than mine. I have this view that we all have different experiences and we need to evaluate other opinions fairly. It may not shift our own opinion, but slinging around insults and rude barbs is not very constructive and not very clever.

If you have done everything you can to draw public attention to this ATOS problem why start this thread. What is the point? Other than to congratulate each other that you are right? I was hoping that you might think a short summary of points made here with a punchy accompanying letter would be good ammunition for selected MPs. It sounds as if ATOS have been operating this way under both recent Governments. A lot of voters must have been badly affected - a powerful lobby for change.

Well I say congratulations & a big thank you to all those drawing more public attention to ATOS problems, the more that know the better.

As for Joy starting this thread to do that very thing, that's the point, more people know, job done.

Well done Joy :-D

"more people know"(Lynda) One more person knows. :-( :-( Perhaps a couple more who have not contributed (probably scared)

Does your local MP know the full facts? Does the Prime Minister read his post unless it is from a Minister? I wonder.

Lobbying is getting your MP to write to the CEO of ATOS and DWP and demand answers about their methodology and results. Specifically concentrating on cases within his or her own constituency. Our local MEP, for example, is a really lovely young lady and would be a wonderful champion at getting things moving for the better. She is Jill Evans, and she is a keen supporter of the Remploy factories locally. And the local MP (Chris Bryant, Labour) is a Rottweiler who likes nothing better than a scrap.

I think my idea to gather together relevant points from this thread and design a punchy letter for us to individually write to our local representatives was a good next step for this thread. Otherwise it is just a talking shop that achieves hardly anything.

One more person knows John, how did you get to that figure? 273 people have looked at this thread, how many of them, since looking, have spoken to friends/family about ATOS since reading, a good few I bet, I know I have.

I have no idea why it worries you that the thread is here, it''s a fact, that some people are going through hell, because of stupid rules, the more people who know about that the better, then if they ever are in the unfortunate position to need help, they'll know more what they are up against.

As for anyone being scared to comment, the only thing people are scared of is going through the procedure to get help

Again, well done Joy for bringing this subject out in the open :-D

Ah....so if people on this thread don't do what you say then this has all been a waste of time :-( Sorry John but what a crock.

THANK YOU LYNDA xx

So, what do you think of my idea, Lynda and others?. Do we continue to campaign as individuals, and leave the 273 to campaign individually? Is it an idea worth pursuing and organising, or is it not? Try to forget the horrible person who made the suggestion :-D

Not so much scared to post, more a case of being ignorant of the finer details and confusion about the different types Benefits available.

What seems to be emerging is the need for Assessment to taken back in-house, if it could be done so at the same cost and more attention paid to the reports written by the claimant's medical Consultants.

If there were job opportunities, there would possibly be roles for (some) of the claimants, but with high unemployment, that is unlikely to happen. Employers are not allowed to reject an application on the grounds of disability, and are obliged to make disabled access to the premises.

As mentioned on the redundant Benefits thread, someone I work with is severely disabled, totally reliant on others for her personal care and mobility including feeding. Had she been looking for a job now, she would probably be rejected because of the cost of also employing an Aide. The only time I’ve known her to have time off is when she was in HDU earlier this year. Apart from appointments, she didn’t even have sick leave when under going cancer treatment. She is probably the exception, but it does go to show that there are some caring employers, and hopefully job opportunities in the work place once we are out of the Recession

I agree with Lynda, Joy - it might not affect Australia at the moment but I will be more aware now.

The point of this thread like most things on this site are, if I hadn't read about them here I would never of know about it.

I have learned vast amounts from threads such as these over the years. I had no idea what ATOS was or is till 3 days ago, I heard people speak of it but didnt have a clue what it was, now I know. Before you ask ( John) to my knowledge no one from my family has ever had any dealing with ATOS.

I think John you intended to get people's backs up orignally by suggesting that no one is not capable of carrying out any kind of work for reward of pay, regardless of their physical condition and claiming a benefit is an easy option ( thats what I got from your oringal comments) , I stand corrected if I if this is incorrect. I can safetly say that I know at least 3 people that have contributed to this thread, that is or has a close family memeber that has either suffered all their adult lives with a condition that unables them to carry out such normal activities such as washing and dressing some mornings let alone carry out a routine job, or people that have worked all their working lives contributed to the system and been struck down with illness that unables them to work, do you think after rowing their own boat bringing up families then to have to go ask for help cap in hand, go through the humilation of ATOS being treated like a fraud is an easy option? Then to suggest that someone who is dying of cancer, can clean toilets or lick envolopes for a living, all this from a arm chair politian !! And you have the nerve to call people hateful !

John I have a couple of pieces of advice to you,

1 Before you feel the need to jump in and give your opinion please beware of what you are actually saying, and at least have experience on such matters.

2 If you can not take it don't give it out and shut up.

All go for the grace of god.